Former Adventist Dialogue

Inside the Vatican

2009-11-01T21:27:00.002-05:00

An absolutely fantastic and extremely fascinating documentary on the Vatican! Originally a National Geographic production, it has become available on Hulu, and is presented here for your convenience and viewing pleasure. Enjoy!

Christianity and Judaism in the first four centuries

2009-10-30T12:25:00.003-04:00

This is a four part series on the Orthodox Christian Network (OCN) website. It has been a very interesting series thus far (currently on part 2), and promises to be enlightening as it proceeds. Each part is in a 26 min. podcast format, and each podcast contains other interesting information as well. I highly recommend the series to anyone interested in Christianity and Judaism of the first centuries, and Orthodoxy in general.

Click here for part 1, the first century: http://www.myocn.net/index.php/200909251951/Come-Receive-the-Light/Christianity-and-Judaism-in-the-First-Four-Centuries.html.

Click here for part 2, the second century: http://www.myocn.net/index.php/200910302030/Come-Receive-the-Light/Second-century-Christianity.html.

I will post more parts as they are released.

Enjoy!

Anglicans Switching Service Providers?

2009-10-27T19:42:00.006-04:00

Jon Stewart's humorous take on the Anglican/Roman Catholic story:

Challenge to Adventists/Protestants

2009-10-26T00:29:00.002-04:00

If you are an Adventist, or even a non-Adventist, then why don't you take on this challenge, and see what you come up with.

Good studying!

Ancient Jewish Confusion

2009-10-24T11:37:00.002-04:00

The following is an excerpt from St. Justin the Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, chapter 10, regarding the general confusion that Jews had toward Christians circa 150-55 AD:

Justin: Is there any other matter, my friends, in which we are blamed, than this, that we live not after the law, and are not circumcised in the flesh as your forefathers were, and do not observe sabbaths as you do? Are our lives and customs also slandered among you? And I ask this: have you also believed concerning us, that we eat men; and that after the feast, having extinguished the lights, we engage in promiscuous concubinage? Or do you condemn us in this alone, that we adhere to such tenets, and believe in an opinion, untrue, as you think?

Trypho: This is what we are amazed at, but those things about which the multitude speak are not worthy of belief; for they are most repugnant to human nature. Moreover, I am aware that your precepts in the so-called Gospel are so wonderful and so great, that I suspect no one can keep them; for I have carefully read them. But this is what we are most at a loss about: that you, professing to be pious, and supposing yourselves better than others, are not in any particular separated from them, and do not alter your mode of living from the nations, in that you observe no festivals or sabbaths, and do not have the rite of circumcision; and further, resting your hopes on a man that was crucified, you yet expect to obtain some good thing from God, while you do not obey His commandments. Have you not read, that that soul shall be cut off from his people who shall not have been circumcised on the eighth day? And this has been ordained for strangers and for slaves equally. But you, despising this covenant rashly, reject the consequent duties, and attempt to persuade yourselves that you know God, when, however, you perform none of those things which they do who fear God. If, therefore, you can defend yourself on these points, and make it manifest in what way you hope for anything whatsoever, even though you do not observe the law, this we would very gladly hear from you, and we shall make other similar investigations.

To read St. Justin's response, click here

Do Adventists need to grow up?

2009-10-24T11:19:00.002-04:00

Ervin Taylor, over at Adventist Today, certainly seems to think so. In an article dated 10/20/09, Taylor chides fellow Adventists on their evangelistic material:

"The approach used by the Amazing Facts organization is a public embarrassment to contemporary Adventism in North America."

He goes on to say that Adventists should leave behind the "highly fundamentalist state of Adventism", and the "immaturity and paranoia exhibited by certain professional Adventist evangelists."

A very interesting read.

Here is the link to the complete story: Will Adventist Mass Public Evangelism Ever Grow Up?

A thank you to Hugo Mendez, over at SDA2RC Blog, for the link!

The Two Ways

2009-10-22T18:40:00.002-04:00

In the early Church there was a teaching known as "the two ways", the way of "Light", and the way of "Darkness". These were contrasted as what the Christian's life should consist of, and what it should not. The following excerpt regarding "the two ways" teaching is from the Epistle of St. Barnabas, chapters 18-20, circa 70-131 AD (probably first century though):

But let us now pass to another sort of knowledge and doctrine. There are two ways of doctrine and authority, the one of light, and the other of darkness. But there is a great difference between these two ways. For over one are stationed the light-bringing angels of God, but over the other the angels 2 Corinthians 12:7 of Satan. And He indeed (i.e., God) is Lord for ever and ever, but he (i.e., Satan) is prince of the time of iniquity.

The way of light, then, is as follows. If any one desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. The knowledge, therefore, which is given to us for the purpose of walking in this way, is the following. You shall love Him that created you: you shall glorify Him that redeemed you from death. You shall be simple in heart, and rich in spirit. You shall not join yourself to those who walk in the way of death. You shall hate doing what is unpleasing to God: you shall hate all hypocrisy. You shall not forsake the commandments of the Lord. You shall not exalt yourself, but shall be of a lowly mind. You shall not take glory to yourself. You shall not take evil counsel against your neighbour. You shall not allow over-boldness to enter into your soul. You shall not commit fornication: you shall not commit adultery: you shall not be a corrupter of youth. You shall not let the word of God issue from your lips with any kind of impurity. You shall not accept persons when you reprove any one for transgression. You shall be meek: you shall be peaceable. You shall tremble at the words which you hear. You shall not be mindful of evil against your brother. You shall not be of doubtful mind James 1:8 as to whether a thing shall be or not. You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain. You shall love your neighbour more than your own soul. You shall not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shall you destroy it after it is born. You shall not withdraw your hand from your son, or from your daughter, but from their infancy you shall teach them the fear of the Lord. You shall not covet what is your neighbour's, nor shall you be avaricious. You shall not be joined in soul with the haughty, but you shall be reckoned with the righteous and lowly. Receive as good things the trials which come upon you. You shall not be of double mind or of double tongue, for a double tongue is a snare of death. You shall be subject to the Lord, and to [other] masters as the image of God, with modesty and fear. You shall not issue orders with bitterness to your maidservant or your man-servant, who trust in the same [God], lest you should not reverence that God who is above both; for He came to call men not according to their outward appearance, Ephesians 6:9 but according as the Spirit had prepared them. Romans 8:29-30 You shall communicate in all things with your neighbour; you shall not call things your own; for if you are partakers in common of things which are incorruptible, how much more [should you be] of those things which are corruptible! You shall not be hasty with your tongue, for the mouth is a snare of death. As far as possible, you shall be pure in your soul. Do not be ready to stretch forth your hands to take, while you contract them to give. You shall love, as the apple of your eye, every one that speaks to you the word of the Lord. You shall remember the day of judgment, night and day. You shall seek out every day the faces of the saints, either by word examining them, and going to exhort them, and meditating how to save a soul by the word, or by your hands you shall labour for the redemption of your sins. You shall not hesitate to give, nor murmur when you give. "Give to every one that asks you," and you shall know who is the good Recompenser of the reward. You shall preserve what you have received [in charge], neither adding to it nor taking from it. To the last you shall hate the wicked [one]. You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light.

But the way of darkness is crooked, and full of cursing; for it is the way of eternal death with punishment, in which way are the things that destroy the soul, viz., idolatry, over-confidence, the arrogance of power, hypocrisy, double-heartedness, adultery, murder, rapine, haughtiness, transgression, deceit, malice, self-sufficiency, poisoning, magic, avarice, want of the fear of God. [In this way, too,] are those who persecute the good, those who hate truth, those who love falsehood, those who know not the reward of righteousness, those who cleave not to that which is good, those who attend not with just judgment to the widow and orphan, those who watch not to the fear of God, [but incline] to wickedness, from whom meekness and patience are far off; persons who love vanity, follow after a reward, pity not the needy, labour not in aid of him who is overcome with toil; who are prone to evil-speaking, who know not Him that made them, who are murderers of children, destroyers of the workmanship of God; who turn away him that is in want, who oppress the afflicted, who are advocates of the rich, who are unjust judges of the poor, and who are in every respect transgressors.

It is well, therefore, that he who has learned the judgments of the Lord, as many as have been written, should walk in them. For he who keeps these shall be glorified in the kingdom of God; but he who chooses other things shall be destroyed with his works. On this account there will be a resurrection, on this account a retribution. I beseech you who are superiors, if you will receive any counsel of my good-will, have among yourselves those to whom you may show kindness: do not forsake them. For the day is at hand on which all things shall perish with the evil [one]. The Lord is near, and His reward. Again, and yet again, I beseech you: be good lawgivers to one another; continue faithful counselors of one another; take away from among you all hypocrisy. And may God, who rules over all the world, give to you wisdom, intelligence, understanding, knowledge of His judgments, with patience. And be taught of God, inquiring diligently what the Lord asks from you; and do it that you maybe safe in the day of judgment. And if you have any remembrance of what is good, be mindful of me, meditating on these things, in order that both my desire and watchfulness may result in some good. I beseech you, entreating this as a favour. While yet you are in this fair vessel, do not fail in any one of those things, but unceasingly seek after them, and fulfill every commandment; for these things are worthy. Wherefore I have been the more earnest to write to you, as my ability served, that I might cheer you. Farewell, you children of love and peace. The Lord of glory and of all grace be with your spirit. Amen.

Ancient Christian Faith

2009-10-20T18:57:00.002-04:00

This is an excerpt from St. Irenaeus' Against Heresies, book 1 chapter 10. He was the second bishop of the Church in Lyons, France (then called Lugdunum, Gaul), circa 178-202 AD:

The Church, though dispersed through out the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: [She believes] in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [future] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father "to gather all things in one," (Ephesians 1:10) and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, "every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess" (Philippians 2:10-11) to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send "spiritual wickednesses," (Ephesians 6:12) and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire; but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning [of their Christian course], and others from [the date of] their repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory.

As I have already observed, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although scattered throughout the whole world, yet, as if occupying but one house, carefully preserves it. She also believes these points [of doctrine] just as if she had but one soul, and one and the same heart, and she proclaims them, and teaches them, and hands them down, with perfect harmony, as if she possessed only one mouth. For, although the languages of the world are dissimilar, yet the import of the tradition is one and the same. For the Churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different, nor do those in Spain, nor those in Gaul, nor those in the East, nor those in Egypt, nor those in Libya, nor those which have been established in the central regions of the world. But as the sun, that creature of God, is one and the same throughout the whole world, so also the preaching of the truth shines everywhere, and enlightens all men that are willing to come to a knowledge of the truth. Nor will any one of the rulers in the Churches, however highly gifted he may be in point of eloquence, teach doctrines different from these (for no one is greater than the Master); nor, on the other hand, will he who is deficient in power of expression inflict injury on the tradition. For the faith being ever one and the same, neither does one who is able at great length to discourse regarding it, make any addition to it, nor does one, who can say but little diminish it.

It does not follow because men are endowed with greater and less degrees of intelligence, that they should therefore change the subject-matter [of the faith] itself, and should conceive of some other God besides Him who is the Framer, Maker, and Preserver of this universe, (as if He were not sufficient for them), or of another Christ, or another Only-begotten. But the fact referred to simply implies this, that one may [more accurately than another] bring out the meaning of those things which have been spoken in parables, and accommodate them to the general scheme of the faith; and explain [with special clearness] the operation and dispensation of God connected with human salvation; and show that God manifested longsuffering in regard to the apostasy of the angels who transgressed, as also with respect to the disobedience of men; and set forth why it is that one and the same God has made some things temporal and some eternal, some heavenly and others earthly; and understand for what reason God, though invisible, manifested Himself to the prophets not under one form, but differently to different individuals; and show why it was that more covenants than one were given to mankind; and teach what was the special character of each of these covenants; and search out for what reason "God has concluded every man in unbelief, that He may have mercy upon all;" (Romans 11:32) and gratefully describe on what account the Word of God became flesh and suffered; and relate why the advent of the Son of God took place in these last times, that is, in the end, rather than in the beginning [of the world]; and unfold what is contained in the Scriptures concerning the end [itself], and things to come; and not be silent as to how it is that God has made the Gentiles, whose salvation was despaired of, fellow-heirs, and of the same body, and partakers with the saints; and discourse how it is that "this mortal body shall put on immortality, and this corruptible shall put on incorruption;" (1 Corinthians 15:54) and proclaim in what sense [God] says, "That is a people who was not a people; and she is beloved who was not beloved;" (Hosea 2:23; Romans 9:25) and in what sense He says that "more are the children of her that was desolate, than of her who possessed a husband." (Isaiah 54:1; Galatians 4:27) For in reference to these points, and others of a like nature, the apostle exclaims: "Oh! The depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God; how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!" (Romans 11:33) But [the superior skill spoken of] is not found in this, that any one should, beyond the Creator and Framer [of the world], conceive of the Enthymesis of an erring Æon, their mother and his, and should thus proceed to such a pitch of blasphemy; nor does it consist in this, that he should again falsely imagine, as being above this [fancied being], a Pleroma at one time supposed to contain thirty, and at another time an innumerable tribe of Æons, as these teachers who are destitute of truly divine wisdom maintain; while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said.

Are Evangelicals disconnected from Western Civilization?

2009-10-20T18:49:00.003-04:00

The author of this article seems to think so.

Ancient Christian Practice

2009-10-19T19:34:00.002-04:00

Another excerpt from St. Justin's First Apology, chapter 67. This time he is describing the ancient Christian practice of meeting together on Sundays as the "common" day of assembly for the Christian community circa 150-55 AD:

And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Ancient Christian Worship

2009-10-19T02:37:00.006-04:00

Another excerpt from St. Justin's First Apology, chapters 65 & 66, describing the sacramental nature of the Christian's worship circa 150-55 AD:

But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to γένοιτο [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist, meaning "thanksgiving"], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do in remembrance of Me, Luke 22:19 this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone...And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost.

Ancient Christian Baptism

2009-10-18T10:48:00.003-04:00

An excerpt from St. Justin the Martyr's First Apology, chapter 61, on baptism in the ancient Church circa 150-55 AD:

I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, "Unless you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." John 3:5 Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: "Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well; judge the fatherless, and plead for the widow: and come and let us reason together, says the Lord. And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow. But if you refuse and rebel, the sword shall devour you: for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it. " Isaiah 1:16-20

And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness. And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.

Covenants in Scripture Part 3

2009-10-18T10:27:00.002-04:00

This is a continuation of our ongoing discussion of covenants in the Bible. If you have not already read the first two posts, and their subsequent comments, I suggest that you do so now as this will give the adequate context to know where we currently are at in our discussion.

Basically, a passage of relevant Scripture will be quoted and discussion will ensue as to what is meant in the particular passage. Once "universal" agreement has been reached regarding its meaning, we will then move on to another "Part" of the series with another passage of relevant Scripture.

Everyone is welcome to participate in this exchange. I will ask that anyone participating to please follow these short guidelines, as they will help insure that we all stay on track and remain focused:

1. All discussion will be regarding the Biblical covenants, and what they mean.
2. All discussion will center on the passage under discussion. Please no "jumping" to other passages of Scripture.
3. Once agreement has been reached regarding the passage under discussion, the thread will then be "closed", and we will all move on to the next "Part" in the series.
4. All quoting from commentaries/books must be short enough to fit within a single comment.
5. Everyone will keep their comments to one single comment only. No "multi-part" comments allowed from anyone. The reason for this is that short comments help to maintain focus better.

Any and all comments not adhering to these "rules" will be deleted by the moderator (me).

Covenants in Scripture Part 3
Genesis 15

1After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2And Abram said, LORD God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
7And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.
8And he said, LORD God, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?
9And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
10And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.
11And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.
12And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Adventism: An African perspective

2009-09-29T19:47:00.002-04:00

One man's story about growing up Adventist in Kenya, and where he is at now. Quite interesting.

Note: Do not be alarmed by the title of his post. I think he may be using "heaven" in a different way.

A shout out to Hugo Mendez over at SDA2RC for the link!

The Sabbath transferred to Sunday??

2009-09-18T12:30:00.004-04:00

Hi all!

There has been a discussion going on over at the SDA2RC blog recently on how Catholics view Sunday, how Christians should observe a "Christian" Sabbath, etc.

I thought that I would inject some unique Orthodox thought into this discussion. I already posted these links over there, but I post them here for convenience. Find out for yourself how the Orthodox understand this issue of "The Sabbath transferred to Sunday?":

1. Wikipedia: The Sabbath in Christianity (look under "Eastern Christianity").

2. Orthodox answers on Sabbath.

3. The meaning of Sunday in Orthodoxy.

4. St. John of Damascus' An exact exposition of the orthodox faith (refer to chapter 23 for Sabbath).

5. Was the Sabbath transferred to Sunday in Orthodoxy? (listen to the lecture, it is interesting and informative!).

Covenants in Scripture Part 2

2009-09-11T19:14:00.006-04:00

This is a continuation of the ongoing discussion of covenants in the Bible. If you have not already read the first post and its subsequent comments, I suggest that you do so now as this will give the adequate context to know where we currently are in our discussion.

Basically, a passage of relevant Scripture will be quoted and discussion will ensue as to what is meant in the particular passage. Once "universal" agreement has been reached concerning a particular passage of Scripture, we will then move on to another "Part" of the series with another passage of relevant Scripture.

Everyone is welcome to participate in this exchange. I will ask that anyone participating to please follow these short guidelines, as they will help insure that we all stay on track and remain focused:

1. All discussion will be regarding the Biblical covenants, and what they mean.
2. All discussion will center on the passage under discussion. Please no "jumping" to other passages of Scripture.
3. Once agreement has been reached regarding the passage under discussion, the thread will then be "closed", and we will all move on to the next "Part" in the series.
4. All quoting from commentaries/books must be short enough to fit within a single comment.
5. Everyone will keep their comments to one single comment only. No multi-part comments allowed from anyone. The reason for this is that short comments help to maintain focus better.

Any and all comments not adhering to these "rules" will be deleted by the moderator (me).

Covenants in Scripture Part 2
Genesis chapters 6 & 9 KJV

Chapter 6

1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
10And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
11The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
16A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
19And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
21And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
22Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.

Chapter 9

1And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
7And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
8And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
11And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
12And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
18And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
19These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
20And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
24And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
28And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.
29And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

Covenants in Scripture Part 1

2009-09-02T19:39:00.004-04:00

Hello all! This is a new series that some over on the SDA2RC blog wanted to start and discuss.

Basically, a passage of relevant Scripture will be quoted and discussion will ensue as to what is meant in the particular passage. Once "universal" agreement has been reached concerning a particular passage of Scripture, we will then move on to another "Part" of the series with another passage of relevant Scripture.

Everyone is welcome to participate in this exchange. I will ask that anyone participating to please follow these short guidelines, as they will help insure that we all stay on track and remain focused:

1. All discussion will be regarding the Biblical covenants, and what they mean.
2. All discussion will center on the passage under discussion. Please no "jumping" to other passages of Scripture.
3. Once agreement has been reached regarding the passage under discussion, the thread will then be "closed", and we will all move on to the next "Part" in the series.
4. All quoting from commentaries/books must be short enough to fit within a single comment.
5. Everyone will keep their comments to one single comment only. No multi-part comments allowed from anyone. The reason for this is that short comments help to maintain focus better.

Any and all comments not adhering to these "rules" will be deleted by the moderator (me).

Covenants in Scripture Part 1
Genesis chapters 1-3 KJV

Chapter 1

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Chapter 2

1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Chapter 3

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Will God judge everyone?

2009-09-02T19:34:00.002-04:00

Sorry I've been busy the past few days. I'll keep this brief. Today we'll examine another one of Ellen White's unbiblical statements. It concerns how God's judgment is handled. Here's her false statement for today.

"God cannot take the slave to heaven, who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God, or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and not holding so elevated a position as his master' brute beasts. But He does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He lets him be as though he had not been." Spiritual Gifts, vol. 1, p. 193

First of all HOW is that compassionate? That poor slave. Not only did he have to deal with a rotten life on this earth the first go around but then you have Ellen White saying God just dismisses him in the judgment too! A double whammy! Don't you think that that slave deserves some justice? A fair hearing from God? Think about that. God according to EGW apparently let this poor human being suffer a rotten life as a slave and then when judgment time rolls around God just forgets him and does no justice for him in his case! God just leaves him in the grave! This makes God look awful! Well thankfully it's not true. Here's what the Bible says about God's judgment.

The Bible says:

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor. 5:10

"And I saw a great white throne...and I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged...and they were judged every man according to their works...and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev. 20:11-15

"Who will render to every man according to his deeds:"(Rom 2:6)

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."(Jude 1:14,15)

Exactly what does the word "all", "every man", and "every one" mean? Simple, it means what it says and Ellen White is wrong and contradicts the Bible in her conclusion that some slaves will not come up to face judgment but will instead remain dead forever after their first death.

You see the Bible is clear about what happens in these types of circumstances. Paul in the book of Romans says that those who do not know about God/Jesus or the Law will be judged by their conscience and against our standard, Jesus. See Roman's chapter 2 for how God deals with those situations. Briefly,

Romans 2
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

In other words God will hold that slave accountable in the judgment by the light which God gives to EVERY man( see John 1:9) regardless of whether they know about Jesus, the Bible , or God or not. It will either excuse him on that day or condemn him. Just because someone doesn't get to know about Jesus or hear about the Bible or God does not mean they will be excused from His judgment. Everyone has to stand before God and give an account. And frankly God can most certainly take anyone to heaven He pleases. In fact, there will MANY people in heaven who've never heard the name Jesus or read the Bible. They will be there because had they been given the opportunity they would have accepted Jesus. They will be there because they did the best they could with the light which was upon them, their conscious!

God is a fair judge. He does not hold us accountable for a lack of knowledge when it's not in our power to attain it. In fact the Bible says that God winks at ignorance. In the case of the above slave, God will bring him forth to judgment and he will have to give answer to God about how he lived and whether or not he lived up to the light of his conscience or not.

I'm sorry but Ellen White is mistaken here when she says some slaves won't face judgment. They most certainly will according to the Bible!

Only the "clean" animals?

2009-08-29T13:29:00.003-04:00

Today we're going to turn to another one of Ellen White's Biblical contradictions. This is a contradiction of not only Ellen White but this is also one of the theological doctrines of the SDA church. It's found near the beginning of the Bible and involves food. Here it is.

"God gave man no permission to eat animal food until after the flood. Everything had been destroyed upon which man could subsist, and therefore the Lord in their necessity gave Noah permission to eat of the clean animals which he had taken with him into the ark." (Counsels on Diet and Foods, p. 373)

This is certainly a true statement God did give man permission after the flood to eat the clean animals, but it's what is implied here that is wrong and unbiblical. You see, Ellen White gives the impression that man was given permission by God to eat clean animals ONLY. According to her the unclean animals were still off limits. This is one of her constant themes throughout her writings and it's also the official position of the SDA church on food. Is this true however?

Well,here's what the Bible says in reference to what God gave man permission to eat after the Flood.

The Bible:

1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth [upon] the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. (Gen. 9:1-3)

Now notice carefully the immediate context of Genesis 9:1-3 because SDA's in trying to defend Ellen's contradiction and their clean food doctrine will want to take you all over the place in Bible to get out of this. They'll try to redefine terms' meanings like "every" and "all" by taking you to other texts. They'll also offer other excuses as to why those terms really don't mean what they say. It's a diversionary tactic and once again it's just an attempt to cloud the issue.

Frankly, it's not necessary. We have everything we need here in the IMMEDIATE context to make a sound judgment on what this passage is saying. And according to Isaiah that is exactly how you are supposed to properly exegete a passage. First you start with the immediate context, "line upon line". If it's not clear only then are you to move on to "here a little, there a little".

Unfortunately for Ellen White and SDA's this passage is abundantly clear enough to make a judgment on what it is saying without the need of going elsewhere.

Let's now deal with the immediate context of Genesis 9:1-3.

Vs. 2 is where I want to draw your attention first. Notice what it says.

"And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth [upon] the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered."

Vs.2 provides the immediate context for what follows in verse 3, "line upon line" remember. Look carefully at how the Bible uses the terms "every" and "all that moveth" in vs. 2.

Would you agree with me that when the Bible uses those terms here in vs. 2 that it means exactly what it says? I.E. it means ALL the animals including the unclean ones? Certainly in vs.2 God wasn't referring to the just the clean animals was He? When God said, "the fear and dread of you shall be upon every beast" Was He referring to the clean animals only? When He said "upon all that moveth". Was He referring to just the clean animals only again? Of course not! ALL the animals would be afraid of man and ALL the animals were delivered into his hand! That's what the terms mean there. "Every beast" means the clean as well as the unclean animals here and "all that moveth" also means the clean as well as the unclean.

But notice carefully,what SDA's will do. When you get to vs. 3 they all of a sudden want to change the meaning of those terms to mean ONLY the clean animals and thus violate the immediate context of those terms' usage in vs. 2. They would have you believe that suddenly "every moving thing" and "all" in vs.3 now only means the clean animals. How utterly inconsistent!

"Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things." Gen 9:3

Clearly based on the usage of the terms previously in vs. 2, God is saying literally to Noah and his family that they can eat ANY animal they choose and that would include the unclean ones. Not only that but vs.3 coincides with the sentiment expressed earlier in vs. 2. God said in vs. 3 that he had given them "all things" and in vs. 2 He said, "into your hand they are delivered". Who's the "they" there? Well obviously ALL the animals listed previously in that verse which included unclean ones. Therefore when vs. 3 reads "I have given you all things" it means ALL the animals including the unclean ones as defined by vs.2.

Ellen White contradicted the Bible here.

The clean/unclean food laws didn't come until after the exodus and were specifically given to Israel as part of the Old Covenant. Previous to this God had allowed man to eat unclean animals. The only stipulation from the passage in Genesis was that they not eat something with blood in it. And strangely enough that is the same stipulation the New Testament put on the Gentile converts in Acts.

But I want to deal with an SDA objection regarding this passage as well. I want to be fair and answer all their objections. So I'll deal with it briefly as follows.

SDA's will point out how Noah brought the clean animals into the ark by greater numbers(which is true), but then they'll make a faulty logic jump that because of this we should read into vs.3 that it's only referring to eating clean animals! Their reasoning? Why else would God tell Noah to bring the clean animals into the ark by greater numbers if not for food later?

Well there's several good reasons why the clean animals were brought into the ark in greater numbers and these reasons have nothing to do with food usage later. 1)Some of the clean animals would be used in sacrifice and 2)clean animals generally DO NOT procreate as well as unclean animals. Thus, God needed more clean animals to come along to insure the species survival.

Think about it. How many offspring do dogs produce? Several at a time right? How about pigs? Also several at a time. How about snakes? Also several at time. How about rabbits? many many at a time right? You see, unclean animals were perfectly ok to come in by just two's. They would survive due to their higher procreation rates. Clean animals are a totally different story however. Think about cows. How many calfs do they produce at a time? Usually one right? How about Goats? 1 or 2 kids at a time. How about deer? Usually one fawn at a time. You see, clean animals were not brought into the ark in greater numbers for food primarily! It was because these animals needed greater numbers in order to survive as a species! Therefore, the SDA argument that the greater numbers equal food usage later and thus reading into vs.3 that "every" and "all" means just the clean animals is wrong again.

Sorry SDA's you're still out of luck on this one and Ellen White plainly contradicted the Bible here.

2009-08-28T13:29:00.006-04:00

Today's contradiction doesn't necessarily deal with a direct Biblical contradiction but more or less with a false statement penned by Ellen White. You see God is not in the business of feeding false information. He is most certainly aware of our physical world and the laws upon which it operates. He made it after all.

Her error involves a statement she made about the brain's physiology. Since God made the brain then He is most certainly aware of how it operates and its anatomy. Why would He give one of his prophets an erroneous view of human anatomy when He most certainly knew everything about human physiology? Think about that.

Here is Ellen White's false statement for today.

Fashion loads the heads of women with artificial braids and pads, which do not add to their beauty, but give an unnatural shape to the head. The hair is strained and forced into unnatural positions, and it is not possible for the heads of these fashionable ladies to be comfortable. The artificial hair and pads covering the base of the brain, heat and excite the spinal nerves centering in the brain. The head should ever be kept cool. The heat caused by these artificials induces the blood to the brain. The action of the blood upon the lower or animal organs of the brain, causes unnatural activity, tends to recklessness in morals, and the mind and heart is in danger of being corrupted. As the animal organs are excited and strengthened, the moral are enfeebled. The moral and intellectual powers of the mind become servants to the animal. The Health Reformer, October 1, 1871, paragraph 9

Here is where SDA's show they are masters at obfuscation. On the Ellen White Estate website they attempt to answer this ridiculous statement of hers. Rather than deal with the real issue here they take you on a diversion talking about peripheral issues such as the wigs she was speaking about in her day. They'll even mention how some of these wings had parasites in them and how the parasites caused some topical epidermis damage and how she was against them because of this and other similar issues.

Is that the main thrust of her statement here though? NO! Read her statement again. She's talking about the heat from these wigs bringing blood to the base of the brain(back of the head) and it stimulating the "animal" organs there. It doesn't matter what kind of wig it was. It's what those wigs supposedly DID to the brain that is the issue. Again, the real issue here is not the type of wigs she was referring to but rather her erroneous views on brain physiology! Let's not confuse the issue.

Let's examine the physiology of the brain then to see if her "divine" counsel is actually sound then.

First, I do believe she was talking about loose sexuality here as a result of blood being brought to this area of the brain. Those terms she used were generally terms she used when talking about sex. Recklessness, unnnatural activity, loose morals, etc.

However, the glands located at the base of the brain(or back of the head) have NOTHING to do with sexuality! Actually it's the thalamus or pituitary glands which are located near the frontal lobe and no where near the base of the brain(or back of the head as Ellen White used the terms) that controls sexual functions. These glands at the base of the brain also have no correlation with morals or intellect either.

In fact, here's what's at the base of the brain(or back of the head) as Ellen White defined the term and it's function.

a) Brain stem - The brain stem consists of the medulla (an enlarged portion of the upper spinal cord), pons and midbrain. The brain stem controls the reflexes and automatic functions (heart rate, blood pressure), limb movements and visceral functions (digestion, urination). AND,

b)Cerebellum - The cerebellum integrates information from the vestibular system that indicates position and movement and uses this information to coordinate limb movements.

And finally here's what's at the very back of the head(brain) I want to be fair and address every possible area as she was understood to define it in her statement.

c)The Occipital Lobe is at the back of the brain. It controls vision. Once again this area of the brain also has nothing to do with what she stated.

These areas have ZERO to do with morals, intellect, or sexuality! Furthermore, they are in no way animalistic in the sense that she used that word. When she said "animal" she was using that word in the sense of "carnal". These areas control motor functions, coordination, and vision and have absolutely NOTHING to do with carnality or base sensual processes. Bringing more blood back there via heat does nothing to dwarf your moral or intellectual capacity or heighten your sexual arousal. Ask any neurosurgeon about it.

Also, since when is having more blood brought to any area of the brain a bad idea anyways? The more blood which is brought to the brain the better the oxygen supply and the better your brain operates! In fact more blood tends to increase your intellectual capacity NOT decrease it as Ellen White intimates! Furthermore, if this counsel were true then SDA's need to stop using heating pads on the back of their necks also! We're talking about the SAME thing here as a heating pad would have the exact same effect of heating the back of the head or base of the brain as one of those wigs would. How silly!

Where did Ellen White get this nonsense? It wasn't from the Lord! I assure you the Lord knows our brains better than that. She got this from phrenology. Yes friends she had experience with it. She is recorded as taking her sons for a phrenology reading from Dr. Jackson at one time. Here's the relevant part from a letter of hers in which she talks about it.

"I think Dr. Jackson gave an accurate account of the disposition and organization of our children. He pronounced Willie's head to be one of the best that has ever come under his observation. He gave a good description of Edson's character and peculiarities. I think this examination will be worth everything to Edson."[ Ellen White to Bro. and Sister Lockwood, Sep. 14, 1864, from Jackson's clinic in Dansville, New York, L-6-1864]

What exactly is phrenology?

Phrenology was prominent back in the 1800's and early 19th century. Since then however, it has been discredited and is today looked upon as quackery. It was developed by a German physician Franz Joseph Gall in 1796. Gall established that the brain was composed of all the faculties that made up the human character. He believed that character traits were embodied in discrete cerebral ‘organs’, which were innate and inheritable, and that individual differences of personality were derived from variations in the physical organization of the brain. Gall contended that the power of each faculty depended upon the size of the ‘organ’ which embodied it; and that the cranium reflected the form of the underlying cerebrum. Accordingly, character could be ‘read’ from the shape of the head. Also, according to the "science" of phrenology, the animal 'organs' of the brain were located in the back and lower part of the head, while organs of intellect and sentiment occupied the frontal region. Heating the back of the head brought blood to this area and supposedly stimulated the sexual passions while conversely taking blood away from the intellectual area at the frontal part of the head.

And there you have it. Ellen White got her "divine" counsel from phrenology! There are no "animal"(carnal) organs at the base of the brain. The glands located there have nothing to do with base sensuality or sexuality or morals or anything animalistic. Again they control motor functions, coordination, and vision. Bringing blood to this area via heat will not cause you to have loose morals or dwarf your intellect.

Can you trust someone who makes wrong physiological statements like this as if speaking for the Lord and got her information from quacks?

A new contributor!

2009-08-27T23:35:00.002-04:00

Everyone, I would like to welcome Lexaholic to the blog as a fellow blogger!

He is a former Seventh-day Adventist friend of mine that I met during my tenure in Tennessee. I believe he brings a valuable perspective to this forum, and I hope that you find his presence to be both fresh and intellectually stimulating!

I think you will find his posts to be quite provocative, as you can probably already see from his first post ;~)

2009-08-27T20:42:00.003-04:00

I have been invited by David to be a regular poster/author on these blogs. With that in mind I've decided to start some dialogue concerning Ellen White's erroneous statements and Biblical contradictions. Ellen White, for those of you who don't know lays claim to the prophetic gift and the SDA church recognizes her as a prophet who spoke on behalf of the Lord. They view her writings as authoritative and on par with Bible despite what they'll tell you. It is one of the 27 fundamental beliefs of the SDA church that you accept Ellen White as a prophet and follow the counsel within her writings. It's also within their baptismal vows that you give assent to her prophetic ability.

It is my aim here to show conclusively that she did not possess the prophetic gift and was in fact a false prophet as out lined by the Bible. She contradicted the Bible on several occasions.

In making this an ongoing discussion I have decided to give one unbiblical or false statement per day so as not to overload you with too much information at once. With that being said, today's contradiction will start from the very beginning of the Bible. You'll notice one constant refrain with her. She contradicts the Bible from the start and doesn't stop until her writings meet a chronological end with her book "The Great Controversy".

Today's contradiction involves her first book from "The Conflict of the Ages" series, Patriarch and Prophets. This contradiction is a unique contradiction in that you will not find it on any other website. Most of my research was done by myself with some help from other sources.

Let's not beat around the bush anymore. Here's her contradiction.

For nearly a thousand years Adam lived among men, a witness to the results of sin. Faithfully he sought to stem the tide of evil. He had been commanded to instruct his posterity in the way of the Lord; and he carefully treasured what God had revealed to him, and repeated it to succeeding generations. To his children and children's children, to the ninth generation, he described man's holy and happy estate in Paradise, and repeated the history of his fall, telling them of the sufferings by which God had taught him the necessity of strict adherence to His law, and explaining to them the merciful provisions for their salvation. Yet there were but few who gave heed to his words. Often he was met with bitter reproaches for the sin that had brought such woe upon his posterity. {PP 82.1}

On surface glance this would appear correct, but notice the bolded part. Did Adam really live until the 9th generation according to the Bible in order to impart this information to them personally as Ellen White stated? Let's check.

First, here are the descendants of Adam in chronological order as listed by the Bible in Genesis chapter 5. The 1st generation obviously starts with Seth(Abel was killed if you remember). Seth had Enosh(2nd generation). Enosh had Kenan(3rd generation). Kenan had Mahalalel(4th generation). Mahalalel had Jared(5th generation). Jared had Enoch(6th generation). Enoch had Methuselah(7th generation). Methuselah had Lamech(8th generation). Lamech finally had Noah(He is the 9th generation).

In order for Ellen White to be correct according to the Bible, Adam would have had to live long enough to see his great, great, great, etc grandson Noah. Did Adam live that long? Well, let's do some math. Adam lived to be 930 years old according to the Bible. He had Seth when he was 130 years old. Starting from there we'll add the years to his life to see if he made it to see his great, great, great, etc. grandson Noah and was able to impart information to the 9th generation personally.

Adam had Seth at 130 years old
Seth had Enosh at 105 years old(that would make Adam 235 years old at this time)
Enosh had Kenan at 90 years old(Adam would be 325 years old by now)
Kenan had Mahalalel at 70 years old(Adam would be 395 years old by now)
Mahalalel had Jared at 65 years old(Adam would be 460 years old at this time)
Jared had Enoch at 162 years old(Adam aged alot here. He was 622 years old at this time)
Enoch had Methuselah at 65 years old(Adam is now 687 years old)
Methuselah had Lamech at 187 years old(Adam is now 874 and would die 56 years from now)

Lamech had Noah at 182 years old(Adam unfortunately DID NOT live to see Noah, the 9th generation. Adam died at the age of 930 years approximately 130 years BEFORE Noah was even born).

Going strictly by the data provided us in the Bible Adam did not live to see the 9th generation and could not have imparted any information to them personally as Ellen White stated. Furthermore, Lamech is not recorded as having any children before Noah. It is only AFTER Noah is born that the Bible mentions other offspring such as daughters being born to him. And it's a fact he didn't have any sons before Noah as bloodlines were generally reckoned by the first born male. So basically Noah was Lamech's first child and Adam did not live to see it nor could he have imparted anything to that 9th generation in person. Ellen White contradicted the Bible here.

Really? A "New" Post??

2009-08-26T20:54:00.001-04:00

Yes kids! It's true!

This really is a new post.

Not much really. Just a "Hi, I'm still here!" kind of post.

I have a confession to make: I've been cheating on this blog with another blog. Yes, I know, I'm a very baaaaddd person ;~)

I'll try to do better, promise!

New Videos

2009-07-28T21:08:00.009-04:00

Just letting everyone know that there are new videos on the blog to watch (no, they're not anything to do with Orthodoxy :~P). They're called Seventh-day Adventism: The spirit behind the church and Adventist Debates: Walter Martin vs. William Johnsson.

Seventh-day Adventism: The spirit behind the church was put together by some former Adventists (how appropriate for this blog, right?). I found it to be quite an interesting take on Adventism from those who had been a part of it for many years. I recommend everyone watch it as I'm sure that it will be rather fascinating. Also, Adventist debates is a great watch for any Adventist or former Adventist to watch. A very intellectual and vigorous debate!

Enjoy!

What you sow you will reap

2009-07-28T19:23:00.004-04:00

I received this story in my email today from a friend of mine and wanted to share it as I thought it was quite inspirational. Enjoy!

Good morning said a woman as she walked up to the man sitting on
ground. The man slowly looked up. This was a woman clearly accustomed to the finer things of life. Her coat was new. She looked like she had never missed a meal in her life. His first thought was that she wanted to make fun of him, like so many others had done before. "Leave me alone," he growled...

To his amazement, the woman continued standing. She was smiling -- her even white teeth displayed in dazzling rows. "Are you hungry?" she asked. "No," he answered sarcastically. "I've just come from dining with the president. Now go away." The woman's smile became even broader...

Suddenly the man felt a gentle hand under his arm. "What are you doing, lady?" the man asked angrily. "I said to leave me alone." Just then a policeman came up. "Is there any problem, ma'am?" he asked...

"No problem here, officer," the woman answered. "I'm just trying to get this man to his feet.. Will you help me?" The officer scratched his head. "That's old Jack. He's
been a fixture around here for a couple of years. What do you want with him?" "See that cafeteria over there?" she asked. "I'm going to get him something to eat and get him out of the cold for awhile." "Are you crazy, lady?" the homeless man resisted. "I don't want to go in there!" Then he felt strong hands grab his other arm and lift him up. "Let me go, officer. I didn't do anything." "This is a good deal for you, Jack," the officer answered. "Don't blow it."
Finally, and with some difficulty, the woman and the police officer got Jack into the cafeteria and sat him at a table in a remote corner. It was the middle of the morning, so most of the
breakfast crowd had already left and the lunch bunch had not yet arrived...

The manager strode across the cafeteria and stood by his table.
"What's going on here, officer?" he asked. "What is all this, is this man in trouble?" "This lady brought this man in here to be fed," the policeman answered. "Not in here!" the manager replied angrily. "Having a person like that here is bad for business." Old Jack smiled a toothless grin. "See, lady. I told you so. Now if you'll let me go. I didn't want to come here in
the first place." The woman turned to the cafeteria manager and smiled. "Sir, are
you familiar with Eddy and Associates, the banking firm down the street?" "Of course I am," the manager answered impatiently. "They hold their weekly meetings in one of my banquet rooms."

"And do you make a goodly amount of money providing food at these weekly meetings?" "What business is that of yours?" I, sir, am Penelope Eddy, president and CEO of the company." "Oh." The woman smiled again. "I thought that might make a difference." She glanced at the cop who was busy stifling a giggle. "Would you like to join us in a cup of coffee and a meal, officer?" "No thanks, ma'am," the officer replied. "I'm on duty." "Then, perhaps, a cup of coffee to go?" "Yes, ma'am. That would be very nice." The cafeteria manager turned on his heel, "I'll get your coffee for you right away, officer." The officer watched him walk away. "You certainly put him in his place," he said. "That was not my intent. Believe it or not, I have a reason for all this."

She sat down at the table across from her amazed dinner guest. She stared at him intently. "Jack, do you remember me?" Old Jack searched her face with his old, rheumy eyes.. "I think so -- I mean you do look familiar." "I'm a little older perhaps," she said. "Maybe I've even filled out more than in my younger days when you worked here, and I came through that very door, cold and hungry." "Ma'am?" the officer said questioningly. He couldn't believe that such a magnificently turned out woman could ever have been hungry.

"I was just out of college," the woman began. "I had come to the city looking for a job, but I couldn't find anything. Finally I was down to my last few cents and had been kicked
out of my apartment. I walked the streets for days. It was February and I was cold and nearly starving. I saw this place and walked in on the off chance that I could get something to eat." Jack lit up with a smile. "Now I remember," he said. "I was behind the serving counter. You came up and asked me if you could work for something to eat. I said that it was against company policy." "I know," the woman continued. "Then you made me the biggest roast beef sandwich that I had ever seen, gave me a cup of coffee, and told me to go over to a corner table and enjoy it. I was afraid that you would get into trouble...

Then, when I looked over and saw you put the price of my food in the cash register, I knew then that everything would be all right." "So you started your own business?" Old Jack said. "I got a job that very afternoon. I worked my way up. Eventually I started my own business that, with the help of God, prospered." She opened her purse and pulled out a business card. "When you are finished here, I want you to pay a visit to a Mr. Lyons...He's the personnel director of my company. I'll go talk to him now and I'm certain he'll find something for you to do around the office." She smiled. "I think he might even find the funds to give you a little advance so that you can buy some clothes and get a place to live until you get on your feet...If you ever need anything, my door is always opened to you."

There were tears in the old man's eyes. "How can I ever thank
you?" he said. "Don't thank me," the woman answered. "To God goes the glory. Thank Jesus... He led me to you." Outside the cafeteria, the officer and the woman paused at the entrance before going their separate ways...

"Thank you for all your help, officer," she said. "On the contrary, Ms. Eddy," he answered. "Thank you. I saw a miracle today, something that I will never forget.
And...And thank you for the coffee."

Adventist Arguments: The Sabbath Part 7

2009-07-25T13:06:00.006-04:00

Adventist Sabbath Argument #7

Jesus said that, "the Sabbath was made for man" (Mark 2:27). Therefore, the Sabbath was made for all of mankind to keep, and not just for the Jews.

My Response:

This assertion is alleged from the story of Jesus and His disciples passing through corn fields on the Sabbath found in Mark chapter 2. Specifically, it is verses 23-28 that relate the story as follows:

"23And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

24And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

25And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."

The first thing to notice is that the Adventists will usually only quote one verse (i.e. verse 27) of this passage in order to maintain their teaching that the Sabbath was made for all people to keep, and sometimes only part of this verse is utilized as demonstrated above in the assertion itself. However, as will be demonstrated, this is a mistake, because it lifts the verse from its immediate context (i.e. verses 23, 24, 25, 26 & 28). Let us consider this passage in light of its surrounding context to see what Jesus' statement actually means.

1. Verse 23 states that Jesus and His disciples were passing through corn fields on the Sabbath, and that His disciples began plucking ears of corn to eat. It is very important that we realize Jesus was not plucking any ears of corn, only His disciples were. The reason why this is important is because it sets the focus for the Pharisaical accusation that is about to come, i.e. that the focus is upon the disciples and not upon Jesus Himself.

2. Verse 24 states that the Pharisees complained to Jesus why "they" (the disciples) did unlawful actions on the Sabbath. Jesus' response and defense to the Pharisees will be for His disciples sake, rather than for Himself. In otherwords, everything He is about to say to the Pharisees applies to His disciples, because they are the focus of the attack.

3. In verses 25-26 Jesus reminds the Pharisees of the story of David in the Old Testament where David and his friends ate the showbread in the temple that was unlawful for them to eat. In Leviticus 24:9, speaking of the showbread, God had said,

"And it shall be Aaron's and his sons; and they shall eat it in the holy place: for it is most holy unto him of the offerings of the LORD made by fire by a perpetual statute."

It would appear that David and his friends had violated the Law, which they certainly did. But why is Jesus utilizing this story for the justification of His disciples being accused of doing that which was unlawful on the Sabbath? The Sabbath commandment had forbade work of any kind (cf. Exodus 20:10). Is it not strange that Jesus would defend His disciples from an example of a Law-breaker? Perhaps not, if we understand Jesus' point of view on the subject.

In the parallel passage found in Matthew regarding this same incident, Jesus says this to the Pharisees,

"But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless" (Matthew 12:7).

His point appears to be that David, though doing something unlawful according to the Law, remained innocent in God's eyes, because God desires mercy rather than a sacrifice. This is an important point Jesus is making, because He is referring to His disciple's situation. Notice that Jesus does not say to the Pharisees, "You guys are mistaken about the Sabbath law. My disciples are not breaking the Sabbath, or doing anything unlawful at all! You guys have misinterpreted the Sabbath by adding all of these restrictions to it." Rather, what we find Jesus doing is not denying their unlawful practice, but rather defending it with an example of another unlawful practice from the Scriptures. And He can do this, because even though David and his friends were breaking the Law, just as His disciples were doing; even so in God's eyes they were still innocent for doing so, because God desires mercy ultimately.

That which follows is Jesus' explanation as to why His disciples are innocent of this violation.

4. Verse 27, Jesus says, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath". What does this mean? Since it is His disciples that are the focus of the attack of the Pharisees, and since this is part of Jesus' defense for them, then it follows logically that this statement is regarding them.

Let us analyze this statement of Christ's:

A. The Sabbath was made, that is the Sabbath was created.

B. It is for man, that is to serve man's need. Man was not created for the Sabbath, that is to serve the Sabbath's need.

C. Therefore, since the Sabbath was made to serve man, man's authority is greater than that of the Sabbath. Man is it's master. And this is exactly the conclusion that Jesus Himself comes to in the following passage.

5. Verse 28, Jesus says, "Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." The capitalization of "Son" and "Lord" is the translator's interpretation of what Jesus is saying, and not what Mark wrote in the original Greek. Jesus' statement is within the context of His defense of His disciples. He has not been speaking of Himself at all. What Jesus says is for the benefit of His disciples in order to refute the charge of the Pharisees against them. Therefore, this final statement by Christ must be taken within the context in which it was said. The son of man is lord even of the Sabbath day. This naturally follows from verse 27's argument that "the Sabbath was made for man". The issue Jesus is discussing is that of authority, and not applicability. This interpretation explains Jesus' use of the story of David and his friends doing that which was unlawful for them to do, and yet remained "guiltless" in God's eyes for doing so. Why? For the same reason that His disciples were held "guiltless", because David and his friends were lords of the Law. The Law was made for man, and not man for the Law. God has accounted us as more than servants (cf. John 15:15). He has given us authority as actual sons and daughters of God!

Conclusion:

Verse 27 of this passage cannot be utilized by the Adventist without acknowledging that it is to be interpreted within the context in which it is found. To attempt to use verse 27 to teach that the Sabbath was made for all of mankind, and thus is to be observed by all, is to lift the verse from its natural context and misapply it. Therefore, the traditional Adventist use of this passage is unjustified and invalid.

Jesus is not speaking of applicability when He said "the Sabbath was made for man", but rather authority. Man has authority over the Sabbath Law, just as he does over the rest of the ritualistic observances of the Law, and as such, is not bound to them. Therefore, man is not held guilty in God's sight for his dismissal of these things. This goes for all of the ritualistic Laws such as circumcision, foods, drinks, washings, appointed times, clothings, sacrifices, etc.

Adventist Arguments: The Sabbath Part 6

2009-07-04T11:54:00.008-04:00

Adventist Sabbath Argument #6

The Sabbath is mentioned in Isaiah as being kept in the new earth. Since the Sabbath will be kept in the new earth, that means it should be kept now.

My Response:

This assertion finds its ground in Isaiah chapter 66:22-23 which reads as follows:

“’As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,’ declares the LORD, ‘so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,’ says the LORD.”

There are several things that can be said about this passage:

1. The phrase, “From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another”. Adventists are quick to jump on the Sabbath reference in this passage, but when one brings up the New Moon portion of it, they become oddly quite, or conveniently change the subject. This is picking and choosing what you want while leaving that which you do not.

Adventists use this passage to justify the continued keeping of the Sabbath, and that would be fine except for the fact that they also use it to tell others that they’re keeping the wrong day. But in order for Adventists to be wholly consistent with the passage they must begin observing the New Moons as well. To fail to do this is to be found a hypocrite.

2. The focus of the passage is not on ritualistic observance of days and times, but rather worship. Instead of reading it as keeping New Moons and Sabbaths in the new earth, one can understand it as teaching that worship in the new earth will be continual, never ceasing. After all, "from one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another", which literally means from month to month and week to week, can symbolically mean all the time, never ceasing. This is the kind of worship we find in God's presence (cf. Rev. 4:8-11).

3. The context that this passage is found within, namely verses 19-21, forbids any literal interpretation of it. For example, no Adventist would claim that God's people will arrive at New Jerusalem in the new earth "on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels" (vs. 20). Also, what Adventist would maintain that God will begin again the Old Testament levitical priesthood (cf. vs. 21)? It is quite evident that Isaiah is expressing God's message in an old covenant way. For the new covenant believer, this passage has significance, but only through a spiritual interpretation of it. Therefore, the reference to New Moons and Sabbaths should not be understood in a literal way, but rather as expressing the mysteries of God's kingdom figuratively while utilizing old covenant terminology.

Problems posting Comments

2009-06-13T12:24:00.010-04:00

It has come to my attention that some people are finding it difficult to post comments under posts. Hopefully these step by step instructions will alleviate this problem:

1. Click on the "Comments" button under a specific post.

2. You will be directed to a new screen with a small box that says "Leave Your Comment".

3. Click "inside" the box and begin typing your response.

4. When you are done you can either enter your blogger login and password (if you are registered), or you can click the circle that says "Anonymous" (you don't have to be registered with blogger or any other system to post a comment on my blog).

5. Once you are finished correcting any errors or making any changes, just click "Preview" to see how your comment will look.

6. Once you're satisfied with your comment just click the "Publish Your Comment" button, and you're done!

I hope this helps, and I apologize to anyone who have wanted to leave comments but couldn't for whatever reason.

Sunday Law: A Jewish Perspective

2009-06-13T12:18:00.004-04:00

This article was linked on the SDA2RC (Seventh-day Adventist to Roman Catholic) blog. It is a fascinating read, and quite funny. Definitely worth a look!

Adventist Arguments: The Sabbath Part 5

2009-06-12T01:10:00.006-04:00

Adventist Sabbath Argument #5

The Sabbath is kept by Gentiles according to Isaiah. Therefore, God intended the Sabbath to be kept by all people, and not just the Jews.

My Response:

This assertion finds its basis in Isaiah chapter 52:3-7 which reads:

“Blessed is the man who does this, the man who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, “The LORD will surely exclude me from his people.” And let not any eunuch complain, “I am only a dry tree.” For this is what the LORD says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant-to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off. And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

This passage does speak of “foreigners” (i.e. Gentiles) keeping the Sabbath, and God not rejecting them for doing so. However, based on its language, this passage is clearly dealing with that former covenant that “was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience—concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10 NKJV). This fact is seen from expressions such as, “my temple” and “Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar”, etc. Obviously, this is language meant to be associated with the first or old covenant God made with Israel at Sinai. His new covenant would not be like His old one (Jer. 38:31-32 LXX; 31:31-32 MT; Heb. 8). Therefore, these words are not to be understood in a literal sense for the Christian. Rather, the message is to be adapted to that of the Christian faith spiritually; for we are His temple (cf. 1Pet. 2:4-5) and His living sacrifices (cf. Rom. 12:1) that are offered upon His altar.

FYI

2009-06-08T02:59:00.003-04:00

I've added a new link under "Orthodox Catholic links" that will link you to the Orthodox Research Institute. Be sure to check it out. It has many useful articles and resources to help explain a variety of issues from an Orthodox perspective.

Enjoy!

Adventist Arguments: The Sabbath Part 4

2009-06-06T23:14:00.007-04:00

Adventist Sabbath Argument #4

Just as the seal of the President of the United States has his title and domain given, even so The Sabbath commandment has the seal of the LORD God because it gives His title and domain as well. Therefore, the Sabbath is the seal of God.

My Response:

This assertion borders on the ridiculous since it endeavors to read into a document that is approximately 3500 years old, written in a completely different language and culture, a primarily Western understanding of government. The fact of the matter is, you just can not do that. The Bible does not admit of modern interpretations and must be dealt with on its own terms.

For a Biblical answer regarding the seal of God, the Christian does not need to look any further than the New Testament:

“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit…And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” Ephesians 1:13; 4:30

Adventist Arguments: The Sabbath Part 3

2009-05-31T12:23:00.005-04:00

Adventist Sabbath Argument #3

The Sabbath was known to the Hebrews before the giving of the law from Sinai (i.e. Exodus 16), therefore the Sabbath was known in Genesis and observed by the Patriarchs.

My Response:

Please forgive me if my statement of the "typical" Adventist argument comes across rather simplistic. There are a few things I would like to point out with this assertion:

The relevant passages in Exodus 16 are as follows:

"And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." Exo. 16:22-23

"And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none." Exo. 16:25-26

"And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. So the people rested on the seventh day." Exo. 16:27-30

I believe it is worth bringing out that the phrases,

"And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD...
And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD...
Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none...
See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. So the people rested on the seventh day",

found in the foregoing passages implies that this is the very first time the Hebrews had ever heard of a seventh-day Sabbath. After all, why would the Israelites need to be told that "to morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD" if they and their fore-fathers already knew about the seventh-day Sabbath from the days of Genesis? The language here seems to express a "newness" to the Israelite's experience regarding the seventh-day Sabbath, rather than a simple remembrance of a past custom. Furthermore, none of these passages indicate in the slightest that the seventh-day Sabbath was known prior to Exodus 16.

Also, consider that the phrase, "See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath" from verse 29 implies what Exodus 31 teaches, saying,

"Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations...Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever..." verses 13, 16, and 17.

This language seems to imply that God's directive was not only for the people of Israel specifically, but that the observance began with them as a people, and was particular to the covenant made with Israel.

Another passage of Scripture that should be taken into account regarding the origin of the seventh-day Sabbath observance is Nehemiah 9:9-14,

"And didst see the affliction of our fathers in Egypt, and heardest their cry by the Red sea; And shewedst signs and wonders upon Pharaoh, and on all his servants, and on all the people of his land: for thou knewest that they dealt proudly against them. So didst thou get thee a name, as it is this day. And thou didst divide the sea before them, so that they went through the midst of the sea on the dry land; and their persecutors thou threwest into the deeps, as a stone into the mighty waters. Moreover thou leddest them in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire, to give them light in the way wherein they should go. Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:"

Notice that the passage states that God "madest known" to the Israelites the Sabbath "by the hand of Moses". If the Patriarchs of Genesis, the Hebrew's and Moses' fathers, had really known of the seventh-day Sabbath prior to Moses, why then would Holy Scripture inform us that the Sabbath was not made known until the time of Moses? This is not an opinion, but rather inspiration in Holy Scripture.

I realise that this has already been mentioned, but I think it is worth mentioning again. No where in Genesis are we told that any Patriarch observed the seventh-day Sabbath. This is important, because as sola scripturists, Adventists are bound by what the Bible says, and not by what it does not say. To assert that the Patriarchs of Genesis observed the Sabbath is to deny the principle of sola scriptura, "the Bible and the Bible only". That means that opinions and assumptions cannot be made the basis of doctrine, only what is plainly written in the text. The Bible makes very clear that the Sabbath was for Israel only to observe as a mandatory requirement as part of their covenant with God. Gentiles are no where mentioned in Scripture, whether Old or New Testament, as being "required" to observe the seventh-day Sabbath or any other ritualistic observance from the Sinai covenant. To assert otherwise would be a violation of the sola scriptura principle as well as placing an undue burden upon the Gentiles that the Apostles were not even willing to do (i.e. Acts 15:28-29).

Adventist Arguments: The Sabbath Part 2

2009-05-21T14:18:00.016-04:00

This series will be updated every week. So be sure to check back often!

Adventist Sabbath Argument #2:

Abraham observed the Sabbath because it is written of him, “Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws.” (Gen. 26:5). Therefore the Sabbath was instituted before the time of Moses, and was kept prior to the giving of the Law on mt. Sinai.

My Response:

Please refer to Part 1 of this series to fully address the assertion that the Sabbath was known and observed prior to the time of Moses.

Additionally it is worthy to notice that the passage in Gen. 26 only speaks of Abraham and no one else. So even if Abraham did observe the Sabbath, it cannot be said that others before him did the same.

Furthermore, the “requirements, commands, decrees, and laws” that Abraham is said to have kept could simply have been all the times God commanded Abraham to do certain things such as,

“Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.” (Gen. 12:1);

“Lift up your eyes from where you are and look north and south, east and west…Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you.” (Gen. 13:14-17);

“Do not be afraid, Abram.” (Gen. 15:1);

“This man will not be your heir, but a son coming from your own body will be your heir.” (Gen. 15:4);

“Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.” (Gen. 15:9);

“walk before me and be blameless.” (Gen. 17:1);

“As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.” (Gen. 17:9-14);

“Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about.” (Gen. 22:2);

“Do not lay a hand on the boy… Do not do anything to him” (Gen. 22:12).

Thus you have all of these "commands" that God gave to Abraham during his entire life, and Abraham faithfully kept everyone of them. Now where was it that God commanded Abraham, His servant, to observe the Sabbath?

Also, the early Christian testimony should be reviewed concerning this:

"Why, then, did the Lord not form the covenant for the fathers? Because "the law was not established for righteous men." But the righteous fathers had the meaning of the Decalogue written in their hearts and souls, that is, they loved the God who made them, and did no injury to their neighbour. There was therefore no occasion that they should be cautioned by prohibitory mandates, because they had the righteousness of the law in themselves. But when this righteousness and love to God had passed into oblivion, and became extinct in Egypt, God did necessarily, because of His great goodwill to men, reveal Himself by a voice, and led the people with power out of Egypt, in order that man might again become the disciple and follower of God; and He afflicted those who were disobedient, that they should not contemn their Creator; and He fed them with manna, that they might receive food for their souls; as also Moses says in Deuteronomy: "And fed thee with manna, which thy fathers did not know, that thou mightest know that man cloth not live by bread alone; but by every word of God proceeding out of His mouth doth man live." And it enjoined love to God, and taught just dealing towards our neighhour, that we should neither be unjust nor unworthy of God, who prepares man for His friendship through the medium of the Decalogue, and likewise for agreement with his neigbbour,--matters which did certainly profit man himself; God, however, standing in no need of anything from man." St. Irenaeus Against Heresies Book 4 chap. 16.

This early Christian understanding agrees with St. Paul's teaching in Romans chap. 2:

"for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel." verses 14-16.

Conclusion

Abraham did observe and practice all of the commandments God gave Him, but apparently the Sabbath was not among them.

The Adventist makes the claim that Abraham and the Patriarchs of Genesis kept the Sabbath commandment. Thus, it is incumbent upon the Adventist to show definitively, in no uncertain terms, that this indeed was the case. Suppositions drawn from passages of Scripture do not serve as valid evidence. Therefore, the burden of proof is upon the Adventist to produce this evidence. Otherwise, they must concede their position.

Adventist Arguments: The Sabbath Part 1

2009-05-14T12:52:00.005-04:00

This is a beginning post of a new series that will explore the validity of each of the Adventist arguments in favor of a particular teaching that they hold. This series will be on none other than their most talked about teaching: The Sabbath.

I will state their argument, and then attempt to dissect it. All discussion is welcome, though I do ask that comments should be upon the subject matter for each post. Thank you for your understanding!

Adventist Sabbath Argument #1:

The Sabbath was instituted at creation before the fall. Therefore, the Sabbath was given to all of mankind, and all must observe it.

My response:
No where in the Biblical passage in Genesis is there a command to observe the Sabbath. In fact, if one reads closely they will discover that the seventh day of creation has no "evening/morning" reference, which implies that the meaning of the Sabbath extends beyond a simple 24 hour period of time.

Furthermore, the idea that the Sabbath was instituted at creation to be observed has not been the historical view held by Christians or Jews for over 2000 years. It has been generally understood by everyone, historically both Jews and Christians, that obligatory Sabbath observance was not introduced in the Bible until the time of Moses. Notice these references from the 2nd and 3rd centuries A.D.:

“Why did He not teach those--who are called righteous and pleasing to Him, who lived before Moses and Abraham, who were not circumcised in their foreskin, and observed no Sabbaths--to keep these institutions?" Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 150 A.D.

“And I (Justin) said, "Tell me then yourself, I pray, some things which can be observed; for you will be persuaded that, though a man does not keep or has not performed the eternal decrees, he may assuredly be saved." Then he (Trypho the Jew) replied, "To keep the Sabbath, to be circumcised, to observe months, and to be washed if you touch anything prohibited by Moses, or after sexual intercourse." And I said, "Do you think that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, and Job, and all the rest before or after them equally righteous, also Sarah the wife of Abraham, Rebekah the wife of Isaac, Rachel the wife of Jacob, and Leah, and all the rest of them, until the mother of Moses the faithful servant, who observed none of these statutes, will be saved?" And Trypho answered, "Were not Abraham and his descendants circumcised?" And I said, "I know that Abraham and his descendants were circumcised. The reason why circumcision was given to them I stated at length in what has gone before; and if what has been said does not convince you, let us again search into the matter. But you are aware that, up to Moses, no one in fact who was righteous observed any of these rites at all of which we are talking, or received one commandment to observe, except that of circumcision, which began from Abraham."

And he (Trypho) replied, "We know it, and admit that they are saved." ibid.

“In fine, let him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day because of the threat of death, teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath, or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered "friends of God." For if circumcision purges a man since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did He not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? At all events, in settling him in paradise, He appointed one uncircumcised as colonist of paradise. Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised, and in-observant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering Him sacrifices, uncircumcised and in-observant of the Sabbath, was by Him commended; while He accepted what he was offering in simplicity of heart, and reprobated the sacrifice of his brother Cain, who was not rightly dividing what he was offering. Noah also, uncircumcised--yes, and in-observant of the Sabbath--God freed from the deluge. For Enoch, too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and in-observant of the Sabbath, He translated from this world; who did not first taste death, in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might by this time show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God. Melchizedek also, "the priest of the most high God," uncircumcised and in-observant of the Sabbath, was chosen to the priesthood of God. Lot, withal, the brother of Abraham, proves that it was for the merits of righteousness, without observance of the law, that he was freed from the conflagration of the Sodomites. But Abraham, (you [Jews] say) was circumcised. Yes, but he pleased God before his circumcision; nor yet did he observe the Sabbath. For he had "accepted" circumcision; but such as was to be for "a sign" of that time, not for a prerogative title to salvation…In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath.” Tertullian An Answer to the Jews 210 A.D.

In addition to the fact that both Jews and Christians knew nothing of the Adventist position, the assertion itself contradicts the bible. Notice this passage:

“You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. You made known to them your holy Sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses.” Nehemiah 9:13-14

According to this passage God made known the Sabbath through His servant Moses, not at creation. Here is another one:

“Then the LORD said to Moses, “‘Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.’“ Exodus 31:12-17

According to the LORD in this passage the Sabbath was to be a sign between Him and His people, the Israelites only, not the entire human race.

A typical Adventist objection to these passages is Mark 2:27 where Jesus says,

"The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath".

Thus they draw the conclusion that the Sabbath is for all of mankind, and thus incumbent upon all people to observe it. But this is not what it says. It merely says that the Sabbath was made for man (i.e. for man's benefit), and not the other way around. The Adventist use of this passage is forcing a meaning upon Jesus' words that was not intended by the context. More on this at a later time.

Adventist Hermeneutics

2009-05-10T00:19:00.003-04:00

Hermeneutics refers to the method that a person uses to interpret Scripture. There are various Hermeneutical styles that people use, but what I wish to explore is the Adventist method of interpreting Biblical prophecy; including the prophetic times.

I wish to concede something.

I asked at the end of my article entitled "Prophetic Time" for a reasonable and logical explanation why the Adventist position is correct. This, I believe, the Adventists, such as ant and Still, have provided. The way they have presented the Adventist method of calculating prophetic time does make sense to me. Therefore, I wish to applaud them for their rigorous defense of what I honestly believed was an indefensible teaching.

With that said, however, I now wish to delve into the actual legitimacy of the Adventist method of interpretation.

1. Historicism

Their historicist view of Bible prophecy is called into question. Why must we understand Bible prophecy from the stand point of progressive historical revelation? That is, a belief that prophecy is simply history written in advance, and sometimes way in advance(!). Why cannot the Preterist view of Bible prophecy not make more sense, especially considering that the prophecies were written for the encouragement and edification of those alive at the time?

2. The Day/Year Principle

Their method of understanding prophetic time is called into question. Why must we understand "days" in prophecy to mean actual years in historical time? Is the Adventist application of the day for a year principle legitimate? Should the two primary passages (i.e. Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:5-6) that Adventists rely upon to teach the day for a year principle be universally applied in all instances of prophetic time? Is this not a contextual mistake? After all, the passages of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:5-6 are referring to very explicitly specific things. If the day for a year principle is not to be applied universally to every time prophecy, then what does that do to the Adventist interpretation of prophecy?

3. Symbology

Their understanding of certain prophetic imagery is called into question. How is it possible that any one, Adventist included, can with certainty declare what any prophetic image means when the author does not interpret it for us? Examples of this include the four "beasts" of Daniel 7, the various prophetic imagery of Daniel 11, the "two witnesses" of Revelation 11, the "beasts" of Revelation 13, the number "666" of Revelation 13:18, etc.

These and other questions will be dealt with in this thread. If you are an Adventist, please grace us with your presence here, and make a defense of all or any of these points of contention. It would be greatly appreciated! And of course, since this is a dialogue, do not be surprised if you find healthy debate and discussion on the points you raise!

God bless all, and let the discussion begin!

Swine Flu 1976!!!!!

2009-05-06T20:51:00.005-04:00

Unbelievable! I came across this on another person's blog and couldn't believe it! I thought Swine Flu was brand new. Guess there really is nothing new under the sun. I think they may be trying to use this "pandemic" as an excuse to get people "vaccinated" which can be very dangerous, even deadly!

Prophetic Time

2009-05-04T23:13:00.003-04:00

Back in 2005, when I was first coming out of Adventism, I typed up a paper attempting to explain how the Adventist time calculations for 1844 were incorrect. Now I am not a mathematician by any stretch of the imagination, so if you find any miscalculations on my part please let me know.

The 2300 days
It is taught that the prophetic reckoning of the 2,300 days of Daniel 8:14 ending in 1844 AD is correct according to the Adventist method of figuring the time. In fact Ellen G. White, referring to the time prophecy of Daniel 8:14, clearly states that upon this Scripture more than any other stands the entire Adventist faith. Notice what she says:

"The scripture which above all others had been both the foundation and the central pillar of the advent faith was the declaration: "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." Daniel 8:14. These had been familiar words to all believers in the Lord's soon coming. By the lips of thousands was this prophecy repeated as the watchword of their faith. All felt that upon the events therein foretold depended their brightest expectations and most cherished hopes. These prophetic days had been shown to terminate in the autumn of 1844." The Great Controversy page 408

Please notice that she as well as every other Adventist believer understood this Scripture to have been fulfilled in 1844 AD. In fact, many of Ellen White's visions were based upon an understanding that the prophetic days of Daniel 8:14 did indeed end in 1844. This understanding has been taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church for over 160 years. And Mrs. White clearly states that this understanding is pivotal to the Adventist Church's existence. After all, if nothing actually happened in 1844, then the Adventists simply made a mistake and there would be no reason for the existence of a Seventh-day Adventist Church. It is important to understand that the Adventist Pioneers, including Ellen White, never taught that they had made a mistake; although William Miller, the original promoter of this teaching, as well as others did admit that they had been mistaken concerning this. In fact, the Adventist Pioneers and Ellen White taught consistently that God had revealed to them the truth on this subject and that if anyone questioned its validity they would be going against the plain truth revealed to them by God. This attitude has been perpetuated by the current Seventh-day Adventist Church to the point that they finally made this teaching a fundamental belief that has to be believed in order for a person to be considered a Seventh-day Adventist (Please see the end of this paper for proof of this).

Anyone who has attended a Seventh-day Adventist Daniel/Revelation seminar has probably been told that the 1,260 days of Revelation 12:6 and the forty two months of Revelation 11:2 and 13:5 all equal 3 ½ years. This is because it is widely known that in the Bible a year is reckoned as 360 days instead of 365 as in the Gregorian calendar that we currently use today. If you simply multiply 42 months by 30 days in each month you will end up with 1,260 days. If you divide 1,260 by 360 days in one year you will end up with 3 ½ years. This is simple math and logic as anyone can see. But when it comes to Daniel 8:14 and the 2,300 days, it will be shown that they, the Adventists, suddenly make a switch in the figuring of the prophetic time to make it fit into their prophetic scenario. The way they do this is instead of figuring the 2,300 days according to the Biblical reckoning of 360 days in one year; they simply reckon it according to the method of 365 days in a year according to the Gregorian calendar. Now let's see why this is significant.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church takes the 2,300 days of Daniel 8:14 and converts them to years and then begins these years at 457 B.C. and runs them all the way through to 1844 AD. In this paper we will not discuss whether or not it is right to convert days in prophecies to literal years, all we are concerned with right now is seeing whether or not the Seventh-day Adventist reckoning is correct with their current teaching. The prophetic time of Daniel 8:14 is Biblical time which means that it should be figured according to a Biblical year and not according to the Gregorian year. This is simply remaining true to Biblical interpretation. There are 5 extra days each year in the Gregorian year over that of the Biblical year including 1 extra day every four years for the leap years. Since the Biblical year is 5 days less than the Gregorian year one must multiply 2,300 years by 5 and this will give you the correct number of extra days to figure. The result is 11,500 extra days in 2,300 years of time. 11,500 divided by 360 days in a Biblical year equals 31.94 less years to figure in. In addition to this, every 4 years is a leap year, so to figure the amount of extra days for the leap years you simply take the 2,300 years and divide them by 4 and this will give you the exact number of extra days for all the leap years in that period of time. The additional number of days is 575. Now 575 divided by 360 days in a Biblical year equals 1.5972 less years to figure in. If you add 31.94 and 1.5972 to find out how many years less to figure into the time reckoning, the result is 33.5372 less years. So the 2,300 years according to Biblical reckoning is approximately 33 ½ years shorter than the Gregorian calendar reckoning. Why is this important? Because it throws off the Adventist time prophecy of 1844 by at least 33 ½ years putting it around 1810 instead of 1844. Now the question is: Why Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church switch the method of how to reckon Biblical time from the true way that they clearly teach in their meetings with the 1,260 days and the forty two months equaling 3 ½ years to the unbiblical way with the 2,300 days of Daniel 8:14 equaling 1844 AD? Why do they teach that the 1,260 days and the forty two months obviously equal 3 ½ years because each year according to the Biblical reckoning is exactly 360 days long, yet they do not apply the same teaching to the 2,300 days of Daniel 8:14 which is also prophetic time? This is inconsistent and misleading.

It might be said that the Gregorian calendar was not established until the 1500's AD, and that each year up to that point was reckoned as 360 days. It is true that the Gregorian calendar was established in the 1500's, however, this does not give the Seventh-day Adventist Church a way out of their dilemma. There is approximately 300 years between the time of the establishment of the Gregorian calendar and the year 1844. If you simply multiply 300 years by 5 extra days per year you will end up with approximately 1500 extra days to figure in. 1500 divided by 360 days per Biblical year equals 4.16 less years. And if you take the 300 years of time and divide that by 4 you will find out how many leap year days to figure in. There are approximately 75 extra days because of the leap years and that equals .25 less years. The grand total would be approximately 4 years less to figure in which would place the termination of the time prophecy around 1840 and not 1844. No matter how you slice up the time it will not fit according to Biblical time reckoning. And after all, that is how the time prophecy of Daniel 8:14 should be figured, according to the Biblical year not the Gregorian year.

Jesus said "Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up" Matthew 15:13. God created mathematics and He created reasoning in us. If He shows us through the things that He Himself has provided for us that the reckoning of the time by the Seventh-day Adventist Church is incorrect; that Ellen White, the Pioneers, and the rest of the early Adventists were wrong; then perhaps He is simply uprooting a plant that He did not actually plant. I know that this may be a difficult saying for most, but when you take an honest look at the evidence what other conclusion can one make? So much in Adventism hinges on 1844: The Church's reason for being, Ellen White's inspiration, Jesus moving from the Holy place to the Most Holy Place, God's hand in the 1844 movement, etc. If you have never given this a second look, please do so now and don't continue to allow "the wool to be pulled over your eyes". All you have to do is follow the Apostle Paul's counsel when he said "Prove all things and hold fast to that which is good" 1Thessalonians 5:21.

The following quote is proof that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is perpetuating the myth of 1844 authoritatively among its membership as anyone wanting to subscribe to the Adventist faith must profess belief in this teaching:

"There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2,300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry." Taken from "Seventh-day Adventists Believe...A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines" Fundamental Beliefs # 23.

The following are statements taken from the Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual explaining that it is necessary to express belief in the fundamental teachings of the Church in order to be considered a Seventh-day Adventist:

"The minister's work is not completed until he has thoroughly instructed the candidates, and they are familiar with and committed to all fundamental beliefs and related practices of the church and are prepared to assume the responsibilities of church membership. Churches should insist on the application of this as a guiding principle in the reception of new members." page 28 under the heading "Ministers Thoroughly to Instruct Candidates Previous to Baptism".

"Candidates for baptism or those being received into fellowship by profession of faith shall affirm their acceptance of the doctrinal beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the presence of the church or other properly appointed body." page 30 under the heading "Baptismal Vow".

The following is proof that one may be disfellowshipped from the Seventh-day Adventist Church for simply not believing in the fundamental beliefs as taught by the Church or for teaching against those same beliefs. Notice what the Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual says about this and ask yourself if this is truly founded in Christ's spirit of love:

"When grievous sins are involved disciplinary measures must be taken. There are two ways by which this may be done:

1. By a vote of censure.

2. By a vote to disfellowship." page 167 under the heading "Administering Discipline

"Among the grievous sins for which members shall be subject to church discipline are the following:

1. Denial of faith in the fundamentals of the gospel and in the cardinal doctrines of the church or teaching doctrines contrary to the same." Page 168-69 under the heading "Reasons for Which Members Shall Be Disciplined".

Please see page 169 for the complete list of offenses as there are a total of 11.

If the Seventh-day Adventist Church is truly of Christ's spirit then they will consider the evidence presented in this paper and either admit that they have been wrong for the past 160 years; that Ellen White and her related visions are incorrect; or they will respond with a very reasonable, logical explanation as to why their teaching of the 2,300 days of Daniel 8:14 is indeed correct and therefore the evidence presented in this paper is incorrect.

FYI

2009-05-04T23:00:00.003-04:00

I have added new videos to my blog. They will go a long way in introducing anyone interested to Orthodox Catholicism. I have also added quite a few links to various Orthodox sites that will help explain the various differences between Protestantism, Roman Catholicism, and Orthodox Catholicism.

I have also added two links to the early Christian writings where one can read for themselves what the early Church actually believed and practiced, all for free online!

To find the videos and links, just scroll past the icons on the sidebar.

That's it for now. I'll be sure to post an update if anything else gets added or changed.

Until then,

Enjoy!

Foundation of the Church

2009-05-03T00:34:00.003-04:00

Mrs. Ellen G. White, one of the principle founders of Seventh-day Adventism and it's inspired prophetess, once said the following concerning the foundation of the Advent movement:

"The scripture which above all others had been both the foundation and the central pillar of the advent faith was the declaration: "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." (Daniel 8:14) The Great Controversy page 408

The Seventh-day Adventist denomination was built upon the foundation laid during the Millerite movement of the 1830's & 40's. When the "Great Disappointment" happened in 1844, the Advent believers gathered together and began their own denomination upon the "visions" of Ellen White and their sanctuary teaching. Soon though, the Sabbath would take a prominent position within the movement, to the extent that; though the sanctuary teaching actually kept them from falling apart into dis-unity, it was the Sabbath that eventually became the central focus for the denomination, as it is to this day.

The Seventh-day Adventist denomination is based upon a very specific interpretation of Bible prophecy. Without this specific understanding, there would literally be no reason for the denomination to exist! Therefore, there has been many an Adventist apologist concerned with the sustaining of the Adventist denomination's prophetic significance.

It is claimed that the Seventh-day Adventist denomination is the last day "remnant church", meaning that all other churches have gone astray from Bible truth; and that God has specially raised up the Adventist denomination to restore His truth. Of course, this understanding is also taught by the Latter Day Saints, which pre-dated the Seventh-day Adventists. Even Islam teaches this in a slightly different form. So this teaching is nothing new.

What we will do now is consider the two Adventist propositions that,

1) God would utilize a specific interpretation of Scripture prophecy to raise up a church, and,

2) that God would actually allow His original Church to be corrupted so that He would have to raise up "another" church.

Proposition #1: God would utilize a specific interpretation of Scripture prophecy to raise up a church

In the New Testament we are told what the foundation of the Church that God established is:

"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?...And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God...And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:13, 16-18

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." 1Corinthians 3:11

"Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1Corinthians 10:1-4

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:" Ephesians 2:19-21

"As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him—you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For in Scripture it says:
"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame." Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
"The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone," 1Peter 2:4-7

It is clear from the Apostolic teaching that the foundation of the Church is Christ Himself. Was the Adventist denomination built upon Christ? As I said before, Seventh-day Adventism comes directly from "Adventism" or "Millerism". Ellen White, the inspired writer of the movement, purported to receive visions from God that their movement was of God. She said that the Advent movement was founded primarily upon a single Scripture of Bible prophecy, that being Daniel 8:14. But if God had founded His Church already upon Christ His only-begotten Son, why then would He seek to establish a "competitor"? Thus we come to Seventh-day Adventism's second proposition:

Proposition #2: that God would actually allow His original Church to be corrupted so that He would have to raise up "another" church

The Adventist denomination is very vocal about saying that the original Church that God established through His only-begotten Son, had went astray. This, they say happened toward the end of the first century and the beginning of the second century after the last Apostle died. But is this point of view Biblical or logical?

First, the claim that the Church went astray is not Biblical. Notice the following passages:

"...I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:..." John 16:13

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish...For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:" Ephesians 5:25-27, 29

"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." 1Timothy 3:15

Secondly, no where in the New Testament is it ever taught that God's holy Church would go astray from Him. Yet Adventists continue to fling this charge at the historic Church. In reality, they are charging God for not keeping His promise of keeping the Church pure and undefiled! Therefore, they willing dismiss the Scripture of the Apostle's in order to substantiate their own existence.

Conclusion:

It has been shown from Apostolic Scripture that Adventism's first proposition is unsubstantiated. The thought that God would establish a church on a movement that had founded itself on a passage of prophecy, and an obscure one at that(!), is incoherent with the New Testament's plain teaching.

It has also been shown that Adventism's second proposition is unsubstantiated as well. Why would God establish His Church on the solid foundation of His Son, and promise to keep it; then suddenly allow it to go astray from Him? Why can't we believe that Christ has remained faithful to His word, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." If the Church did go astray when the last Apostle died, then how can we trust the New Testament itself? After all, it was centuries later that the Church established in Council which writings were authentic and trust-worthy. If the Church had gone astray, don't you think She would have altered the Scripture to suit Her teaching? Why would She choose the very writings that would condemn Her?

The Adventist claim is illogical. The Church did not go astray. God has remained faithful. Christ is still Her Head.

How can the Adventist denomination be truly of God if it is founded, not on Christ Jesus Himself and St. Peter's confession of Him (Matthew 16:16), but rather on, "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed"? (Daniel 8:14)

Unfortunately, I'm afraid Adventism falls within the scope of Christ's warning as recorded in Matthew 15:13,

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up."

An open letter...

2009-04-30T16:48:00.004-04:00

The following was a public email I sent out to everyone on my contacts list way back on July 8, 2006. I didn't realize that I had kept it until I found it today! I read it and thought that it would be useful to post on here. It is a general plea for everyone professing the Christian faith to acquaint themselves with the writings of the early Christians.

When I had originally written this back in '06 I didn't know about the Orthodox Catholic Church. Since then, I have arrived at the conclusion that the Orthodox Catholic Church has been the faithful preserver of the Apostolic and early Christian teaching. I present this "letter" for everyone's benefit:

Greetings my beloved brethren and friends,

Grace and peace be unto you from the most true God the Father, Lord and
Maker of all things, above whom there is no other God, and from His only
begotten Son, Lord of heaven and earth, God of everything begotten, second
only to the Almighty Father, Christ Jesus the Lord.

I hope and pray that all is well with everyone. I have been studying in the
early Church writings as many of you are already aware. The revelations
concerning the original Christian faith are fascinating to say the least! I
am thoroughly convinced now that if we had spent our time studying the early
Church writings along with Scripture, we would have left the Seventh-day
Adventist church long before now. Some of us would never have gotten caught
up in the Ebionite heresy of Messianicism either. The early Christian
writings are abundantly clear and concise as to what constitutes the true
faith of Jesus Christ. This is due to the fact that the majority of their
writings were written:

1. to pagans who were actively persecuting and
killing them,

2. to Jews who were still clinging to the Law, and,

3. against heretical groups that were attacking the faith of the Church.

I have already shared some of these things with some of you. I hope that it has
been a blessing.

This may sound somewhat strange, but the more I read their writings the more
I am strengthened in the Scriptures, especially the Old Testament. It is
hard to convey just how strongly these faithful men clung to Scripture. We
have been taught that in the early centuries of the Church the Christians
that were being converted from Greek philosophy and paganism brought with
them many of their pagan beliefs and practices into the Church. Well I'm
here to tell you that this flat out isn't true at all! Anyone taking the
time to actually read what these men had to say will see clearly that they
left paganism behind them and held firmly to the Bible. In fact, many, many
times they condemn the very practices and beliefs that they once held in
light of the knowledge and understanding that they had received thru the
Scriptures. They literally drew all of their beliefs from the Scriptures
alone. Whatever the Bible taught, interpreted thru Jesus' and the Apostles'
teaching, that is what they believed.

The charge has been made that perhaps the early Church changed the faith
that was once delivered unto them by the Apostles. This also, as anyone
can clearly see if they are willing to give these early Christians a chance
by actually reading what they have to say, will be shown to be false. They
clearly taught the very same things that the Apostles taught and handed on.
In fact, I have observed that throughout their writings these men are very
zealous for the teaching and tradition that they had received from the
blessed Apostles and those disciples who knew them personally. They were so
zealous for the unchangeableness of the faith that they were willing to die,
and did die, rather than have it changed. Truly Jesus' words to His
disciples in Matthew 16:18, "I will build my church, and the gates of Hades
will not overcome it" certainly was the truth.

What follows is a quote from an early Christian by the name of Ireneaus. He
was bishop of a congregation in France. He wrought a five volume work
entitled "Against Heresies" in approximately 170-180 AD. In that work,
which was directed at combating the various heretical groups of his time,
he said this in response to the charge that the faith had been altered:

"The Church, though dispersed through out the whole world, even to the ends
of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith:
[She, the Church, believes] in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of
heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one
Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in
the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of
God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the
resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of
the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [future] manifestation from
heaven in the glory of the Father "to gather all things in one," and to
raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ
Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of
the invisible Father, "every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and
things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should
confess" to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that
He may send "spiritual wickednesses," and the angels who transgressed and
became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked,
and profane among men, into everlasting fire; but may, in the exercise of
His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have
kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the
beginning [of their Christian course], and others from [the date of] their
repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory.

"As I have already observed, the Church, having received this preaching and
this faith, although scattered throughout the whole world, yet, as if
occupying but one house, carefully preserves it. She also believes these
points [of doctrine] just as if she had but one soul, and one and the same
heart, and she proclaims them, and teaches them, and hands them down, with
perfect harmony, as if she possessed only one mouth. For, although the
languages of the world are dissimilar, yet the import of the tradition is
one and the same. For the Churches which have been planted in Germany do not
believe or hand down anything different, nor do those in Spain, nor those in
Gaul(France), nor those in the East, nor those in Egypt, nor those in Libya,
nor those which have been established in the central regions of the world.
But as the sun, that creature(creation) of God, is one and the same
throughout the whole world, so also the preaching of the truth shineth
everywhere, and enlightens all men that are willing to come to a knowledge
of the truth. Nor will any one of the rulers in the Churches, however highly
gifted he may be in point of eloquence, teach doctrines different from these
(for no one is greater than the Master); nor, on the other hand, will he who
is deficient in power of expression inflict injury on the tradition. For the
faith being ever one and the same, neither does one who is able at great
length to discourse regarding it, make any addition to it, nor does one, who
can say but little diminish it." Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 1 page 330-331

God has always had His faithful to preserve the true faith in the world. It
is the "johnny come lately's" that have ventured to tell us not to "waste"
our time reading "garbage" like this. They would much rather have us read
their own writings rather than the writings of the early Christians written
primarily for the edification of Christians. They were written to leave us
examples of what it really means to be a Christian. What they believed,
practiced, and died for is all recorded in detail for us. How they
understood the Christian message in light of the Old Testament will at times
surprise you, and at other times impress you that you are indeed on the
right course. They knew and understood the Gospel teaching. They
incorporated the principles of godly living into their lives and showed
themselves to be worthy of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus their
Lord. Read their writings and find out what it means to have Jesus as both
Lord and God of your life. Believe me, you will be blessed with the
experience.

The following is part of an Apology(Defense) of Christianity written by
Aristides to Emperor Hadrian in the year 125 AD. Notice how He describes the
conduct of the Christians and their various beliefs and decide for yourself
whether or not they left the true faith of Christ:

"But the Christians, O King, while they went about and made search, have
found the truth; and as we learned from their writings, they have come
nearer to truth and genuine knowledge than the rest of the nations. For they
know and trust in God, the Creator of heaven and of earth, in whom and from
whom are all things, to whom there is no other god as companion, from whom
they received commandments which they engraved upon their minds and observe
in hope and expectation of the world which is to come. Wherefore they do not
commit adultery nor fornication, nor bear false witness, nor embezzle what
is held in pledge, nor covet what is not theirs. They honour father and
mother, and show kindness to those near to them; and whenever they are
judges, they judge uprightly. They do not worship idols (made) in the image
of man; and whatsoever they would not that others should do unto them, they
do not (do) to others; and of the food which is consecrated to idols they do
not eat, for they are pure. And their oppressors they appease (lit: comfort)
and make them their friends; they do good to their enemies; and their women,
O King, are pure as virgins, and their daughters are modest; and their men
keep themselves from every unlawful union and from all uncleanness, in the
hope of a recompense to come in the other world.

"Further, if one or other of them have bondmen and bondwomen or children,
through love towards them they persuade them to become Christians, and when
they have done so, they call them brethren without distinction. They do not
worship strange gods, and they go their way in all modesty and cheerfulness.
Falsehood is not found among them; and they love one another, and from
widows they do not turn away their esteem; and they deliver the orphan from
him who treats him harshly. And he, who has, gives to him who has not,
without boasting. And when they see a stranger, they take him in to their
homes and rejoice over him as a very brother; for they do not call them
brethren after the flesh, but brethren after the spirit and in God. And
whenever one of their poor passes from the world, each one of them according
to his ability gives heed to him and carefully sees to his burial. And if
they hear that one of their number is imprisoned or afflicted on account of
the name of their Messiah, all of them anxiously minister to his necessity,
and if it is possible to redeem him they set him free. And if there is among
them any that is poor and needy, and if they have no spare food, they fast
two or three days in order to supply to the needy their lack of food.

"They observe the precepts of their Messiah with much care, living justly
and soberly as the Lord their God commanded them. Every morning and every
hour they give thanks and praise to God for His loving-kindnesses toward
them; and for their food and their drink they offer thanksgiving to Him. And
if any righteous man among them passes from the world, they rejoice and
offer thanks to God; and they escort his body as if he were setting out from
one place to another near. And when a child has been born to one of them,
they give thanks to God; and if moreover it(the child) happen to die in
childhood, they give thanks to God the more, as for one who has passed
through the world without sins. And further if they see that any one of them
dies in his ungodliness or in his sins, for him they grieve bitterly, and
sorrow as for one who goes to meet his doom.

"Such, O King, is the commandment of the law of the Christians, and such is
their manner of life. As men who know God, they ask from Him petitions which
are fitting for Him to grant and for them to receive. And thus they employ
their whole lifetime. And since they know the loving-kindnesses of God
toward them, behold! for their sake the glorious things which are in the
world flow forth to view. And verily, they are those who found the truth
when they went about and made search for it; and from what we considered, we
learned that they alone come near to a knowledge of the truth. And they do
not proclaim in the ears of the multitude the kind deeds they do, but are
careful that no one should notice them; and they conceal their giving just
as he who finds a treasure and conceals it. And they strive to be righteous
as those who expect to behold their Messiah, and to receive from Him with
great glory the promises made concerning them. And as for their words and
their precepts, O King, and their glorying in their worship, and the hope of
earning according to the work of each one of them their recompense which
they look for in another world, you may learn about these from their
writings. It is enough for us to have shortly informed your Majesty
concerning the conduct and the truth of the Christians. For great indeed,
and wonderful is their doctrine to him who will search into it and reflect
upon it. And verily, this is a new people, and there is something divine
(lit: "a divine admixture") in the midst of them.

"Take, then, their writings, and read therein, and lo! you will find that I
have not put forth these things on my own authority, nor spoken thus as
their advocate; but since I read in their writings I was fully assured of
these things as also of things which are to come. And for this reason I was
constrained to declare the truth to such as care for it and seek the world
to come. And to me there is no doubt but that the earth abides through the
supplication of the Christians. But the rest of the nations err and cause
error in wallowing before the elements of the world, since beyond these
their mental vision will not pass. And they search about as if in darkness
because they will not recognize the truth; and like drunken men they reel
and jostle one another and fall.

"Thus far, O King, I have spoken; for concerning that which remains, as is
said above, there are found in their other writings things which are hard to
utter and difficult for one to narrate,--which are not only spoken in words
but also wrought out in deeds.

"Now the Greeks, O King, as they follow base practises in intercourse with
males, and a mother and a sister and a daughter, impute their monstrous
impurity in turn to the Christians. But the Christians are just and good,
and the truth is set before their eyes, and their spirit is long-suffering;
and, therefore, though they know the error of these (the Greeks), and are
persecuted by them, they bear and endure it; and for the most part they have
compassion on them, as men who are destitute of knowledge. And on their
side, they offer prayer that these may repent of their error; and when it
happens that one of them has repented, he is ashamed before the Christians
of the works which were done by him; and he makes confession to God, saying,
I did these things in ignorance. And he purifies his heart, and his sins are
forgiven him, because he committed them in ignorance in the former time,
when he used to blaspheme and speak evil of the true knowledge of the
Christians. And assuredly the race of the Christians is more blessed than
all the men who are upon the face of the earth.

"Henceforth let the tongues of those who utter vanity and harass the
Christians be silent; and hereafter let them speak the truth. For it is of
serious consequence to them that they should worship the true God rather
than worship a senseless sound. And verily whatever is spoken in the mouth
of the Christians is of God; and their doctrine is the gateway of light.
Wherefore let all who are without the knowledge of God draw near thereto;
and they will receive incorruptible words, which are from all time and from
eternity. So shall they appear before the awful judgment which through Jesus
the Messiah is destined to come upon the whole human race.

The Apology of Aristides the Philosopher is finished."

If any of you have been impressed with the level of integrity and honesty
and holy regard that these men of ancient times had concerning the faith of
Jesus Christ and His Apostles, then I would recommend two books to you that
would be an introduction and gateway, so to speak, to their writings. The
first is the "introduction" book entitled ,"Will the Real Heretics Please
Stand Up: A new look at today's evangelical church in the light of early
Christianity" written by David W. Bercot. It's very easy reading and not
very long. The ISBN number is 0924722002. The second book which acts as a
sort of gateway into the early Church writings is entitled, "A Dictionary of
Early Christian Beliefs" also by David W. Bercot. A great reference book
for looking up various topics. It's ISBN number is 1565633571. I was able
to get both of these books for approximately $20.00 thru Amazon.com. I
highly recommend these two books to anyone that is wanting to understand the
early Christian faith better.

For those of you who want some serious reading, I can only recommend to you
what I myself have been studying so in depth lately, the actual early
Christian writings as contained in the 10 volume set the Ante-Nicene
Fathers(which simply means pre-council of Nicaea writings). This is where
the buck stops for anyone wishing to better understand what the early
Christians taught and lived. I got mine online for $116.00 after shipping.
The ISBN number is 1565630823. I hope that anyone wanting these can find
them at least as cheap as I did, cheaper would be preferable though:P.

I know that this has been an extremely long letter, but I've been wanting to
write you all concerning this topic for awhile now. I truly have the desire
to see God's Church rebuilt in these days according to the early Church
model. I know that it can be done if we give ourselves to the task. The
early Christian writings give us valuable insight as to what the Church is
supposed to be like in the face of persecution and heretical dissention.
They also give us a practical model as to what it means to be a Christian.
It certainly means a lot more than what the churches of today think it
means!

May the God and Father, the most high and supreme God Himself, and His
beloved Son, Christ Jesus our Lord and God, second only to the Father, and
the grace of the Holy Spirit, the third of divinity, be with you all!
Amen.

Your faithful brother in Christ,
David

Apostasy from Bible truth

2009-04-30T00:01:00.003-04:00

Mrs. White once wrote,

"If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift away from Bible truth." [VOL. 5, P. 98 (1882).] {5T 674.2}.

I have lost confidence in her "Testimonies" as being inspired by God. Does this mean that I have drifted away from Bible truth? Adventists will undoubtedly respond in the affirmative. However, I think it comes down to a matter of interpretation. This is a powerful thing, interpretation. It actually shapes our understanding of life itself! Jesus understood the importance of interpretation when He was asked a question and He responded, "What is written in the law? how readest thou?" (Luke 10:26). He allowed people to explain to Him their understanding of what was written, and then He would comment on their understanding.

When I was an Adventist I read much of Ellen White's writings. I loved reading her, and so I immersed myself into her books. She was an inspired prophet after all! Unknowingly to me, though, I began to understand the Bible through her understanding that I absorbed through her writings. I marveled that the Bible "lined up" so neatly with Ellen White's books. However, since I have left Adventism I have ceased to read Ellen's writings religiously. Because of that, I have slowly been able to understand things differently from the Scriptures than I once did. I have also read other authors, that formerly would have been anathema for me to read and listen to, such as the Church Fathers. I have discovered that the understanding of Scripture they espouse is wholly and completely different from what she understood. Now, of course, I believe that the writings of the Fathers are much more biblical than those of Ellen White, even though they claimed no special prophetic inspiration.

So what was it that caused me to disregard Ellen White as a reliable source of Bible understanding? Well, I'd say that first it was the revelation of the Gospel that finally hit me. When that happened I was finally able to reject her counsel. Mrs. White taught Adventists how one ought to come to the Bible:

"I took the precious Bible and surrounded it with the several Testimonies for the Church, given for the people of God...I said further: As the word of God is walled in with these books and pamphlets, so has God walled you in with reproofs, counsel, warnings, and encouragements." {5T 664.3}; {5T 666.1}.

This, I believe, is dealing with how one understands the Bible. Clearly Mrs. White is telling us that in order to come to the bible, one must approach it through the Testimonies of her writings. As an Adventist, unwittingly, I was doing exactly this with all of my studying in her books. Her words and thoughts echoed in my mind, and whenever I read the Bible, my understanding would be colored by what she taught about it. This was so subtle to me that I did not even realize that this was what was happening. I honestly believed that my thoughts were my own, when in reality they were hers. After I learned the truth of the Gospel I was able to disregard her "rule", and started seeing the Bible from a different perspective.

In the end, it all has to do with interpretation I think. And one's interpretation will be ultimately shaped by which authority one holds them self to. For me, I have chosen to go by what the Christian Church has understood in all places at all times by everyone (the Vincentian canon). This rule embraces universality, antiquity, and consensus. To me, this is a much more reliable guide to understanding Scripture than simply my own judgment or that of another human being. Does this mean that I don't read the Scriptures for myself? No. It simply means that when I do study the Scriptures, I do not merely understand them in a vacuum by myself; or that I submit my judgment to that of another single individual. The Holy Spirit through the Church is my guide in its complete 2000 year life and experience.

The early Christians

2009-04-28T21:47:00.010-04:00

All Christians today look up to the original Christians in the New Testament, such as Peter and Paul, as saints and examples to be imitated. But what about those Christian luminaries in the late first and early to mid second centuries who were in the forefront in defending the Gospel and their fellow Christians from persecution? Such great Christian leaders as St. Clement of Rome and St. Ignatius of Antioch and St. Polycarp of Smyrna; and the great apologist St. Justin the Martyr, have left the Church their writings in order to preserve her faith in the midst of heresy and apostasy. Most of these early Christians died for their faith, martyred by the Romans for being simply Christian. How many of us today can truly say that we would have the courage they did to face death with such triumph and zeal?

Read for yourself what these great defenders of Orthodox Christianity had to say about the faith of Christ and the Apostles! Just click on the links below:

St. Clement to the Corinthians

St. Ignatius to:
the Ephesians
the Magnesians
the Trallians
the Romans
the Philadelphians
the Smyrnaeans
St. Polycarp

St. Polycarp to the Philippians

St. Justin the Martyr's 1st Apology
St. Justin the Martyr's 2nd Apology
St. Justin the Martyr's dialogue with Trypho a Jew

After reading their various works to determine whether they were faithful to the Apostolic teaching entrusted to them; you can then read the following accounts about their glorious martyrdoms to see how they faced death as conquerors!

The martyrdom of St. Igantius
The martyrdom of St. Polycarp
The martyrdom of St. Justin

They did not fear death, because they knew that "Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death,and upon those in the tombs bestowing life!" Paschal Vespers hymn
"Death was made flesh and He killed it!" ibid.

Does God require Sabbath-keeping or not?

2009-04-27T18:29:00.003-04:00

As a former Adventist I am very aware of the "traditional" arguments that are employed in order to substantiate the teaching that Christians are required to observe the seventh-day Sabbath. My "journey" explains, to an extent, how I was able to "disarm" those various arguments for myself.

If you are a former Adventist like me, then I assume that you do not view Sabbath-keeping as a requirement like you once did. How did you arrive at this conclusion for yourself?

Thank you for your comments and interest!

My Journey

2009-04-26T00:03:00.008-04:00

I suppose I will kick off this new blog with a little information about me.

I was a Seventh-day Adventist for approximately 10 years; from 1995-2005, and during that time I had many experiences that would eventually lead me out of the Adventist denomination. As with any personal story, this one can be quite long, but to save on space and time I will cover only the particular highlights, that to me stand out as "sign posts" if you will in my deconversion process.

Sign Post #1 1888

I learned about the history of 1888 and what happened during that time in the Adventist denomination. To keep it brief, I learned that there were two individuals named E.J.Waggoner and A.T.Jones who got together on the west coast through mutual study of the Bible, and began declaring a message that centered on Christ's righteousness rather than the Law. They were actively teaching that “the Law" that was mentioned in the book of Galatians chap. 3 was not the "ceremonial law" that the Adventists had nearly always taught it was, but rather it was the whole thing, including the Ten Commandments. Their teachings aroused the condemnation of the leadership of the denomination, who actively taught against what they were teaching. Most notable in this opposition was two fellows by the name of G.I.Butler and Uriah Smith. The tension between these individuals became so palpable, that a special General Conference was called for Oct.-Nov. 1888 in order to settle this dispute. When the delegates convened, passionate arguments from both sides were heard and considered, though it has been remarked by one Adventist historian:

"Powerful arguments were developed to establish [the law’s] ‘binding obligations.’ Debaters and polemicists emerged, stressing the Sabbath, the Law, etc. — like lawyers arguing a case. Spirituality waned, and not a few became decided legalists. . . . Cold intellectualism and dry theory increased. Christ often became secondary, and Righteousness by Faith largely lost sight of, through outward profession without inner experience. The majesty of the message and the law was magnified. But something was lacking. Discussions were logical and convincing, but not Christ centered." LeRoy Edwin Froom. Movement of Destiny. [Washington DC]: Review and Herald, 1971; p. 239.

Because of this "coldness", Jones and Waggoner were treated with contempt by their fellow brethren. But why was their teaching such an issue with the Adventist leadership? Another Adventist historian sheds some light on this issue:

"The Westerners (i.e. Waggoner and Jones) had reverted to the early Seventh-day Adventist position that the law Paul here referred to as the ‘schoolmaster to bring us to Christ’ (verse 24) was the whole body of the moral law including the Ten Commandments. This position the Adventists had almost entirely abandoned during the 1860s and 1870s; the ‘schoolmaster’ was reinterpreted to mean the ceremonial and sacrificial laws of Moses which pointed forward to the Messiah. This reinterpretation had developed largely as a reaction to Protestant clergymen who interpreted Paul’s statement in Galatians 3:25 (‘we are no longer under the schoolmaster’) to mean that the Ten Commandment law had been abrogated; thus, the seventh-day Sabbath was no longer viable." R. W. Schwarz. Light Bearers to the Remnant. [Boise, Idaho]: Pacific Press, 1979; p. 185.

Thus, for the leadership, the teaching of Jones and Waggoner was tantamount to "giving in" to the Sunday-keeping Protestants' argument, and they saw that such teaching would only lead to a gradual abandonment of Sabbath-keeping as a requirement for the Christian. This they could not allow. Therefore they did all that they could to undermine what Jones and Waggoner were teaching. Even against Ellen White, who agreed with Jones and Waggoner on their position of the Law in Galatians, did the leadership actively pursue to smear and silence. They called her "senile" and sent her off to Australia where they believed she would no longer be a problem.

Now when I first learned about all of this, I was deeply troubled. No other time prior to this "revelation" did I ever think the Adventist denomination had gone astray. But clearly from the information I was presented with in writings such as "Light Bearers to the Remnant" and "1888 Re-Examined", as well as others, I had come face to face with this reality. I saw that the Adventist leadership did not accept Jones and Waggoner's "most precious message" in 1888, and I did not believe that they had accepted it in more than a century later. Primary proof of this is the fact that Adventists still teach that St. Paul is talking only about the "ceremonial law" in Galatians 3. Jones and Waggoner taught that "the Law" in Galatians is the whole thing, including the Ten Commandments. Even Ellen White, who is looked upon in the Adventist denomination as an authority (as per Fundamental Belief #18), agrees with Jones and Waggoner's position:

"Which Law Is the Schoolmaster?--I am asked concerning the law in Galatians. What law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ? I answer: Both the ceremonial and the moral code of ten commandments." 6BC 1109.9.

All of this was very perplexing for me, and though I did not sense the complete significance of all of this at the time, it always stayed in the back of my mind.

Sign Post #2 The Trinity

I have always had questions about the Trinity as taught by mainstream Protestantism, and by extension Adventism. It always seemed to me to be a confusing teaching about God. However, though I had questions, I found that asking those questions usually did not get me anywhere with others. I found that other people either had similar questions, confusing analogies and explanations, did not desire to talk about it, or a combination of all three. So the Trinity was a doctrine I didn't pursue much until I received a book purporting to uncover a great deception in Adventism. The book was called "No new leaders, no new Gods" by Fred Allaback, and I read through this book practically in one day. I felt so hungry for an understandable and Biblical explanation, that I simply devoured what I found. The book opened my eyes to some history in the Adventist denomination that I had never heard before. I learned that the founders of Adventism were strongly non-Trinitarian in their views. Even Ellen White was non-Trinitarian! Her books such as "Patriarchs and Prophets" and "Story of Redemption" convey this view point well. This was hugely important for me, because my desire had always been to be the best Adventist possible, and that desire led me to embrace the Pioneer's understanding of Scripture.

I began doing hardcore studying of the Bible and reading early Adventist literature on the subject, and I began to see more and more how that the denomination's official Trinitarian stance was flawed. For instance, I discovered that the general theological view in the denomination today is that Christ was not the Son of God until He came here as a human being. The various scholars and theologians of the denomination today assert that He became the Son of God during His incarnation only with either no reference to His birth from God the Father or a direct denial of the teaching! This of course, is contradicted by historic Christian teaching that Christ is the Son of God from all eternity:

"I believe...in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages; Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not created, of one essence with the Father through Whom all things were made." Nicene Creed.

Not only that, but I also discovered that the Adventist denomination taught a type of "role-playing" within the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit:

"Within the Godhead an economy of function exists...The Father seems to act as source, the Son as mediator, and the Spirit as actualizer or applier. The incarnation beautifully demonstrated the working relationship of the three persons of the Godhead...In the economy of function, different members of the Godhead perform distinct tasks in saving man." General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, "Seventh-day Adventists Believe...A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines" [Hagerstown, Maryland]: Review and Herald Publishing Association; p.24

"In the Godhead, the Spirit seems to fulfill the role of executor. When the Father gave His Son to the world (John 3:16), He was conceived of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 1:18-20). The Holy Spirit came to complete the plan, to make it a reality." ibid, p.61

The idea that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are merely "acting" or "role-playing" causes one to look upon them as insincere and deceptive, especially when Scripture affirms these various "roles" for them in a direct and straight-forward manner. For instance, in Scripture, the Father does not seem "to act as source", but He is presented as Source in all truth and honesty. The historic position of the Church, as I later found out, has always understood God the Father in this way. They, the Church, have always known that the Father is the great and original Source of the Trinity, and that Christ was brought-forth or born from Him before all time, and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him continually. Never has the Church ever understood from its earliest times that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are merely "acting" out "roles" that they have taken upon themselves. This would be ingenious of them. For the Church, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are what they have always been and will continue to be in truth.

Needless to say, with 1888 and the Trinity issues I was having, the "chinks" in Adventism's armor were beginning to show themselves!

Sign Post #3 Messianicism

The issues I had with the Adventist Trinity led me to seek out others who shared my views. I longed for fellowship, but most people I talked to could either care less about the truths I was discovering, or they simply believed I was in error and would argue with me.

I was at a potluck at Collegedale church in Tennessee one Sabbath when I met a lady who told me that she and an entire group of people were all non-Trinitarians, and that they were meeting downstairs that afternoon! Needless to say, I was excited! I couldn’t wait, so I rushed downstairs almost immediately. What I found were people who not only shared my convictions of non-Trinitarianism, but were also into Messianicism. There are various Messianic groups around the country, all varying from one another. This one in Collegedale was “serious” about getting back to what they thought were the Hebrew roots of the Christian faith. They would hold a worship service that incorporated Hebrew chants and dancing. Then they would study the “Torah” for approximately 4 or so hours, which I really liked. I thought, “Man, these people are so hardcore! Studying the Bible for hours on end? Wow!” Though we never really referenced the New Testament, which I thought was wrong, I did learn a valuable lesson from them.

I attended their group for about 8 months and the realization slowly sunk in that “the Law” was the “Torah”, the five books of Moses. This was very important, because as an Adventist I had always understood “the Law” to be the Ten Commandments, and them only. Now I was realizing through in-depth Torah and Biblical study that “the Law” included much more than that. I began to dive into intense Hebrew and eventually Greek studies, and was amazed at what I found. I discovered that the Adventist understanding of the Law was very inadequate. The people of the Bible did not understand the Law in the same way that the Adventist denomination understood the term. I began to see that God had much more to say, and much more commandments that needed to be kept! Because of this, I started wearing “tassels” on my clothing in order to fulfill the commandment in Numbers 15:37-41. I also began observing the various feast days and holy days commanded in Leviticus 23, as well as new moons. I was already observing the commandment to abstain from certain foods found in Leviticus 11, and also from blood and fat found in Leviticus 3:17, I was a vegetarian and then went vegan for awhile. And of course I was already observing the Sabbath.

Even though I was “keeping” all of these commandments, I knew that I was “picking and choosing”. I began to question the group why we no longer stone people for things. All I got was some disgruntled looks and stern countenances. I had no desire to begin killing people; I just wanted to know when things changed where we were not obligated to do this. After all, those were commandments too! Because of my questioning and other factors, I eventually left the group and went on my own. I felt somewhat lost, but at the same time sure in what I had been discovering. I continued to study the Bible in Hebrew and Greek, to dig for truth as for hidden treasure.

My friends and I would fellowship and give Bible studies in the men’s dorm at Southern Adventist University. Those were good times! But it was another friend of mine that would open the door to the light that would tie everything together for me.

Sign Post #4 The Christian understanding of Moses

My friend Julio, now a former Adventist, had been living in California for awhile, working with someone that he knew there. Julio had gone through some of the same experiences that I had, such as 1888, he was a non-Trinitarian, and he had experience with the Messianics before I did. He has always been an avid studier as long as I have known him, and it was his studying that got him questioning the Adventist understanding of Galatians. By the time he had come back from California, he was already on his way out of the denomination.

We began discussing things about “the Law” and what not. At the time, he sounded to me like a Baptist Evangelical, and I even accused him of it! Needless to say, we had our time of arguing; some would have called it shouting matches! But I decided to do something that I hadn’t done in awhile. I decided to sit down and read Galatians straight through with no one else around, just me and the Bible. I read it like a letter, which is exactly what it is. Now I had read through Galatians before, and studied it in-depth; but that was before I had my new understanding of the Law as the Torah, the first five books of Moses. When I listened to what St. Paul was saying I couldn’t believe what I was reading. I saw things I had never seen before! The way he was talking about “the Law” was so plain to me now. I saw that what my friend was trying to tell me was the truth! It was genuinely awesome! All those years, and all that information I had accumulated, finally came flooding back to my mind. It all made sense! I immediately knew that the Adventist denomination had gotten it wrong the whole time. I saw my experience in Adventism as wading through dark water, searching for pearls underneath its surface, only to find that pearl of great price Jesus spoke of. I finally began to understand what St. Paul meant when he spoke of the “spirit” and the “letter” of the Law. It was the true Christian understanding, and I loved it!

Conclusion

In the years since that time I have tried speaking with various individuals about the Christian understanding of the Law, Adventists especially. I have found that most of them have a difficult time accepting what I say. I believe that this is mainly due to the fact that for Adventists St. Paul is only speaking of the “ceremonial law” in Galatians. This understanding has greatly stunted the mind of Adventists, as it did for me for many years. When I was finally set free from that interpretation I was able to understand clearly what St. Paul was trying to tell the Galatian Christians.

I would implore Adventists to re-examine this understanding in light of Scripture and history. The Jews have never understood the Law to only refer to the Ten Commandments. The first Christians were Jews, and they carried over with them in their conversion their previous understanding of these things. Jesus never limited the Law to only the Ten Commandments. Neither did any of His Apostles. They all understood the Law to reference Moses and all that he wrote from Genesis through Deuteronomy. The early Christians after the Apostles continued this understanding, as is evidenced by their writings. Please, if you are currently an Adventist, look into this and discover for yourself what it means to be truly free! This was the “heart” of the 1888 message, and Ellen White herself endorsed it! Thank you for reading and God bless!